Human Factors and Chill | Human Factors Hangout | Bonus Episode

Welcome to Human Factors Cast, your weekly podcast for Human Factors, Psychology and Design.

Hello. We're live. Hi, Internet. We are live hearing things are starting to Ding, which is good. Yeah, Ding a Linga Ling. So tonight is going to be a bit different, folks. I don't know where you're watching or what. It says there's some weirdness behind the scenes here, but we're not going to do a show. But we will have something for you tonight. We're here, obviously. So we're talking and that's what this is. It's Human Factors and Chill. I don't know what the title. I don't even know what the title is. Is it Human Factors? Hang out? Human Factors and Chill. I don't know. Human Factors and Chill. Given that the past two episodes that we've done have always had a bit of a sexy thing to it. Yeah, it's kind of a theme at the moment, isn't it? We kind of needed to somebody said to me, is what you're going to do next, a review of the economics of sex toys or something? I was like, oh, I thought of that. On the one hand, I was like, no, that'd be really bad. Hold on. Put that one in the bank.

Oh, man, we were talking shop before this. So actually, you know what? Let me preface one thing tonight. So if you're watching, no matter where you're watching, the reason we're doing a hangout tonight rather than a full episode is that if you tuned into last week's episode live and noticed any internet dropping that is still happening and it is outside of my control. I have contacted the people I need to contact, and there's a potential that during this broadcast tonight, there will be drops. The rule is if I'm gone for 15 minutes, Barry is going to end it and we will be done.

So Barry has signed on to do 15 minutes of solo chatting. If I drop. Clearly, if Nick's not here, he doesn't know whether I do 1 minute or 15 minutes. We'll see. Well, I'll know if I get back within that 15 minutes window. Hello, everyone. So we would much rather with a topic like the one that was selected by you all on Twitter and through Patreon. We'd rather do that justice and not have the distraction of getting disconnected every couple of minutes on my end. This is also really embarrassing, too, because I had a very similar issue happen during the town hall. And since we dropped that, you can go check that out. That was a wonderful time to catch up with some of HFCS's leadership, learn about the outreach stuff that they're doing. And throughout it, if you watch it, you can hear me struggle or not hear me. You can watch me struggle as I get reconnected. And my microphone is not connected because of some weirdness with the program that we're using. And so everyone played it off like I was on mute. But really. I was struggling over here doing I've got to say, though, you managed that like a star because I was watching it and I almost

struggled with this. And you kind of get to know what's going on in the background, looking at your eyes start to go. And I was like, I know exactly what's going on. There's absolutely nothing I can do from back here about it. But everyone else was just, I think was it Gary who didn't introduce me? Oh, I was going to do it anyway. And I was like, that's brilliant. That was an everyone was a great sport about it. It's hard for me in a professional manner to have that happen on a live stage with so many people watching. But you know what? We handled it. We got through and we got the content across. The slides dropped a couple of times. That's okay. It's all out there for you. Was that just with the Restream thing when I dropped the slides dropped? Yeah, of course. So that's what happened there. The other thing is that I'm very thankful that during the Q and A zero drop on my end. So the Q and A is kind of seamless. It's just the weird transitions. Thankfully, I was able to get everybody up when they needed to be up and everybody out when they needed to be out. And it wasn't no one was just sitting there for a couple of minutes going, I'm done. Next person, please. Yeah. There was nothing. If you listened to our show the day before and you knew what the issues were, I think you'd recognize this is still the issues playing. But actually, if you watched it live without knowing any of that, I don't think you'd have actually realized that there was a major problem. It just felt like there was a bit of a sadly pressed the right button at the right time. So you're just incompetent. Exactly. I was going to say it's just incompetence. He's not pressing the mute button. He clearly just doesn't know how to use technology after two years in a pandemic. So, yeah, that's where we're at. And so we just wanted to do this week's episode. It's justice. It's a really cool one that we will talk about next week on the show. Hopefully with all these issues resolved about Jetpack Paramedics, it's pretty cool. The guy who's doing it, what's his name? The inventor duty. What's his name? Now, I should know this

because I've got the same one open twice, that's why. Because you've got obviously two versions of Story. And actually, I prefer the BBC one. I do, too. I don't know why I didn't trace it back and publish that when I put it out there. But the BBC one is the one that I was using as well. Yeah.

Is that Andy Mawson? Oh, Richard Browning. That's the deal. Oh, Richard Brown. So from Gravity Industries. And I've been following a lot of stuff that he's been doing because he started to do it for the military domain. I mean, some of the thoughts that he's got there, he's been doing it with Royal Marines and stuff, but he actually presented at the Ergonomics conference last year and this is going to sound really bad. It wasn't quite as cool as I thought it was going to be because I thought it was going to be him doing a presentation on the ergonomics of it. So I'm really interested in we will go to it way more next week. But fundamentally dying month, isn't it? Jets on his hands and a jet on his back. So he doesn't have the things on his feet, but we're given that and it's not red. He hasn't painted red and gold, which I also think is disappointing. He must have a version just in his own. Gary. Oh, yeah. You know, he does. He's red and gold and he's got cool hat and stuff. But anyway, I just thought of it. Could you imagine you've got these thrusters on your hand in real life and you get itchy nose. How do you know your face off? I mean, that's clearly it you just get it close enough to where the heat just eliminates the nose problem, the skin problem altogether, as I said, the nose. But also could you imagine like scratching leg or something, you basically got these jet burners. How do you stop them from burning yourself? What do you like picking stuff up that's all the sort of stuff from human factors are going to miss perspective. I was hoping he was going to go into.

Honestly. I think at that point you're flying so fast that the wind buffeting of the face is probably taking care of any facial issues with itching. I'd imagine that your clothes, depending on how loosely fit they are or flapping in the wind and therefore agitating the skin. And there's probably some sort of point where you get acclimated to them. So I wonder if those issues are in fact moot. Although the one thing that I would be interested in is the vibration, the continued vibration of the jet propulsion. Is it smooth enough to kind of continue? Yeah. What's the continued strain too of like holding those in place? I don't know. There's just a lot of things. Yeah. The only way you can presumably. And again, this is where this is something I'd like to have a proper chat with them about to sort of say. Right. Because you weren't like gauntlet glove thing with your jet packs on either side. Right. It must have some really thick spongy leathery stuff to absorb a lot of that vibration because it's going to vibrate and it's going to the same period of time. I think at the moment you can fly about 30 minutes. Am I right in that? It's around half an hour worth of flight and that's quite the same period if you were holding on to say a vehicle control generator or something like that and you have that sort level of vibration for 30 minutes, you would get that. Now I'm stretching the boundaries of my vibration knowledge, but you can get that syndrome in your arms where you just got that vibration going on and I completely forgot the name. But anyway, so there's all sorts of clothing issue when you're flying, as you're not quite rightly. Say I think while you're doing that your mind is going to be on the flying because it's all it's a bit like skydiving just the wrong way because that's all about if you make very small body movements, you make very large maneuvers and all that sort of stuff. So you got to do that with this. But it's that whole when you've landed. So you land on your thing and actually some of the videos he does of going from ship to boat to ship and stuff really cool to watch on YouTube. I want to do a quick clarification too because I think we're looking at the same 30 minutes. But the 30 minutes is referencing something else. The gravity jetpack itself can run for around five to ten minutes depending on the pilot's weight and other factors. So the jet pack itself has a much more limited time.

But yeah, that five to ten minutes is the timeline of flight there. Although let's see here. When was this posted? This was 21 July 13. So I'd imagine it hasn't improved much since. No, it's fuel, isn't it? It's fuel biggest issue. Yeah. The 30 minutes you were referencing was something else in the article about response time. Yes, it was stupid then.

Yeah. Because again, looking at the pictures of it, I guess this is a good opportunity for us to get into the nittygritty of these bits because we won't do that next week.

Some of the suits that are looking I like the way the views from the training because you're talking about how to do the training, you have to start tethered. So you tether to the ground and tethered to this almost massive steel. It's almost like a stage structure. Yeah. So you can get up and fly but you're not going to go more than a few meters up in the air because of death. Presumably he's relatively up there. But if you're flying around as well and questions to it the answer. I don't know with UAVs and stuff at the moment, if you're going to do more than sort of like 2 meters away from the ground, you now have to have a license and all that sort of thing. You're just a random person lying around. Do you need a license to do that? Yeah. I don't know. I mean if you could afford one, why would you license literally you're actually a flying object. Do you need a pilot's license then? At that point, I don't know. That's interesting. See, I'm now at the point I'd be quite tempted to book. I think he's got a book out on the whole thing. On the one hand, if it's a technical enough, I'd be quite reading it. But I'm guessing it's probably more about how we got to where we got to. It's probably the experience of story. Yeah. Scientists always asking about the specifics of technical. So if you want to redesign your own version of said suit, so take the jet packs and all that sort of stuff, what cool stuff would you have on it? Oh, like utility wise? Yeah. Okay. You have the core jet pack and you've got two jets on each arm. So that's a given. And whatever you need to do to make that happen happens. You've got that? How else would you trick it out? What would next to look like? I definitely have some safety features. There would probably be a parachute in there for high altitude flight. Okay. Presumably we're talking hypothetical situation. I'm imagining you can harness much more power. You can get a lot higher off the ground. So therefore a parachute, some safety mechanisms would be necessary. In fact, I would argue that some quick release mechanism also would be a good thing to have because I imagine you get strapped into this thing, it's quite cumbersome. And let's say, I don't know, you crash land and it catches fire on some brush nearby, you're going to need to quickly get out of that situation. And so like having a quick release mechanism on it that you pull one strap, everything just falls off and you're able to run away safely. I think that is absolutely crucial. But imagine pulling that strap at the wrong time. There be redundant safety features in there. So that way it wouldn't be pulled on. It's like the rip cord on a you're not going to accidentally do that. And so that's kind of what I'm imagining. Right. Pull the rip cord on the suit, it just falls off you. Now you're asking me hypothetical. So this would be totally like feasible. This would be, but it would be very cool. As if you could somehow get an automated mounting system circa Iron Man two with the briefcase with hands in the thing and it kind of forms up around you. Yeah, that'd be cool. So ease of getting in, ease of getting out, trying to think of like bells and whistles. I would probably want a heads up display for typical flight related controls, altimeter, clock, even some Compass to give you direction, maybe even Google Maps on there. So that way you can kind of see where you're going. You might be trying to do your route with Google Maps. I don't know, turn left. It turn right,

you can get the jet suit flying experience, two and a half thousand pounds, £2400, which is I don't know what conversion you pretty much want to want to be on dollars you're close. Well, that's a little bit more in US dollars. It's around $3,138. Oh, yeah. It's not quite a one to one right now.

And I presume that's just one day. Just slowing. Two and a half range. Just on a day. Why not? I'm lying. It's not a day's worth of experience. It's half a day. You're talking to somebody who's going to blow more than that on a experience at Disneyland to go on Star Wars Hotel. Yeah, that's acceptable. Have you done Disney before? Yeah, we've done like Disneyland. We've done the whole Southern California circuit because we lived there for a long time. But the Florida location has a hotel that's completely decked out in Star Wars. Like it is a Star Wars hotel. You are living in experience. It's pretty cool from what I hear. And it's very expensive for two nights. Yeah. We did not a Southwest thing, but we went because we were quite like Lego and stuff. So for my wife birthday, we went and stayed in the Lego Hotel, which was really cool. So everything was decked out in Lego and everything was made. So it looks like they're going on. I quite enjoyed that. There's a leg of land right by my childhood home. Cool. No stranger to that. My friends are out at Disney at the moment. Okay. I'm sort of seeing photos of what they're doing, coming back and saying, I've never been to Disney in the States. We've only done Disney in Europe.

Yes. So we drove down there, which was years now it must be about five years ago. That goes back away. It's amazing how time is. I met up with somebody today. Sorry. Yesterday still Thursday. So I met with somebody yesterday who I haven't had seen since before the Pandemic. And we had a business meeting, but we were good friends, so it was good to catch up and all that stuff. It's just amazing. However, you sort of talk to that whole two years of the Pandemic, no matter what happened during with lockdowns. Non lockdowns. You can't just forget that two years happened when you've seen people like, oh, just before we moved in. And that was like four years ago. Right. But yeah, it's interesting how we perceive that bit of time. I want to go back to something we were talking about. You would ask me what my bells and whistles on the gravity jet pack would be, what are yours? So you'd have to have a paint job. Okay. You could go down the red and gold, which is a bit cheesy because he's just taking the Ironman thing and all that sort of stuff. But I'd be quite tempted to go down the whole the silvery Chrome route, like Mando. Yes.

The other guy in Iron Man, who. Oh, War machine. War machine. That's the one. But that sort of route. And the heads up display, I think I can steal from you because I think for me. It'd be quite simple in terms of you'd have like just a big sort of way finding out, direction finding arrow where you need to go. But also the readout display the fuel. Because I have this when I started chatting about this yesterday, imagine if you're flying high, like what they do on Iron Man goes basically flies high into space and sort of towards the end of Ironman One where then they start running out of fuel and all that sort of stuff. Can you imagine being up there and actually doing that whole flying up?

So then you'd need some sort of batwing. Okay. Is there some glider mechanism? I think that would be a bit, yeah. So you either end up being I was like one of these Red Bull guys who have the flying squirrel, which then you can do the whole ground effect thing which I think you've got to be very good to be able to do that. But yes, that'd be my sort of safety mechanism type thing. I do have to just jump in really quick with a quick nerd check towards the end of Iron Man one, it wasn't a fuel issue, it was a freezing issue. So as in altitude, the systems were freezing up and he did not regain control of them until he was very close to the ground. That is how he recovered from that. How did you solve the cooling issue and then good job like that. Then the whole other thing is it's got a heads up display but you've got to have a cool helmet. Okay. Yeah, it can't just be a copy of it. Copy of something else. It also just can't be pair of Googles because that'd be boring and I don't know what this would look like but it would have to be something really cool, really unique something. Yeah, I'd have to think a bit more about that, about what that actually looked like. And then I think the only other bit I would kind of think of is you have some good footwear, good solid footwear for doing tackles landings. But wouldn't you also want them to be magnetic? So if you're landing on something and then the ability for just when you're getting in close to something, just switch on the magnet and it snaps or to whatever your landing thing is, which could be like the side of a building or something like that, but fundamentally just something just to give you that grip and hopefully you'll switch back up again because otherwise you'd be stuck there for a long time. Would that work on an aircraft they're made out of aluminium? I don't know.

Would it work on that?

I guess you would find a way of making it work, wouldn't you? Rather than using Magnus to do it, could you basically make it a big suction cup? You actually suck yourself to the that's a bit where some marine stuff works as well, doesn't it. Yeah, it's non magnetic. Okay, so yeah, it would not work. I thought it was not magnetic, but I needed to check. Yeah, that's fine. I didn't want angry Twitter comments. How could you land on landing on a plane in flight would be quite impressive anyway. So you're not just talking a pair of trainers, you're talking about a decent pair of boots that have to come up like above your ankle because the chance of you twisting your ankle if you land on a plane whilst it's implied. Okay, so we're imagining very different scenarios. Are you imagining like falling from one aircraft and landing on another as it's heading a different direction? Because I'm like, okay, you jet pack up to it and you're matching its speed and you slowly dock with it. That's kind of the scenario I was thinking of. In which case if you've only got ten minutes flight time, then you haven't got time to mess around with a nice delicate landing, have you? You need to be because it's almost easy, I guess. What are you using the aircraft for? Does the aircraft have a launch system? So you go up with the aircraft, you're hanging onto the aircraft and it's got a big sort of almost a mini kick triangle. So your feet are against that. You grew up the aircraft then dives down, but you then keep going forward because you then launch of it. We should not talk anymore. Painting this. Okay, see, so when you said launch system, I was imagining like an aircraft carrier launch system where you are positioned on something. It totally just launches you out the back end of the plane through like the magnetic. Why can't I think of the name? Because we're live, that's why. I can't magnetic superconductors that gradually increase your speed rapidly like what they use on rides and just shoot you out the back of the plane like a railgun and you are suddenly in flight going presumably nothing. Your outward speed would match the plane and therefore you are not doing anything. Yeah. So instead of that forward momentum, you have a negative momentum and you can choose then which direction you want to go. And so it's truly a drop off mechanism that will allow for any approach, any direction of approach. So let's say you're going into a hotly contested territory. You could come in and drop without having to consider the exit path. You could almost skim it and then turn 90 degrees at the very end and drop them and they could go in like if you think about military applications. So it's almost that last mile of delivery, isn't it? When you talk about launch, I then had a thing in my head of aircraft carriers. They have the castles, right? What about having effectively a soapbox? Yeah, that's what I'm talking about. Yeah. Have it on the aircraft carrier itself. No other plane involved. You are the aircraft, you strap your soapbox onto the capture mechanism. When you put it on, it launches you. But you'd have to go back to the old Harrier days where they used to have a ramp at the end, at the end of the thing. But we can install them. I'm sure we've got one knocking about in a scrapyard somewhere. Put that on the end. So you basically get launched, then things go pretty quick.

How do you prevent it from falling flat on your ass after you get that wrong and it slips or something and goes like you get your fingers caught underneath. Okay. Yeah. Too much to think about there. But if you go and it just throws you in the air, how much forward momentum and upward momentum would you get? And then just as you reach the perfect top of the arc of you've been launched, that's when you switch on your own personal rocket boost. Yeah. You know what we haven't talked about yet that would be absolutely crucial for a jet pack is autopilot. That's true. Some sort of autopilot mechanism that I don't know, would adjust the thrusters because there's two thrusters on each hand. Yeah. So you got the forward after of your wrists, obviously, then you got one on your back. Right. And so there would need to be some sort of gyroscopic effects within each of those to understand its relationship to the ground. And then based on those two boosters, maybe if you had, like, micro adjusters on the boosters, they could then provide some additional stabilization when not in autopilot, but then could provide full autopilot. And you just need to kind of keep your hands down. It wouldn't be efficient because you're not angling them in the way that they need to. But some sort of mechanism to either, I don't know. Like an exoskeleton, a lightweight exoskeleton that locks your arms positions. So that way it can lock them comfortably, obviously. So that way it reduces the fatigue on your arms and your joints. So like, let's say if your elbows or shoulders fail, this exoskeleton will lock into place and try to recover. Right. So really, it's just locking mechanisms. It's not a full exercise. If you're going to have a effect of the exoskeleton, you might as well have a short structure on your back that has some extra things, the ones you normally have in your arms. You might as well lock them to that and have it auto control.

The problem with having the control, I guess an autopilot on the ones on your wrist is it's going to have a really good understanding. And he could do it just with some devices that you put on them now for both have them now accelerometers there that would know the position of your wrist and the direction that each one is pointing in. Therefore, because that's the way that the big engine on the F 35 works. It completely turns you can see on all the footage, it completely turns the live Hello,

Redirect. And that's what you'll be talking about with this one like 24 of them. It's almost not too far from what Musk does with his

booster engines, because they all do that, don't they? They're all directional. Yeah, that's exactly what I was thinking of. That technology just built into all of them. And if you have more control over it, they're all working together. All you need is some fixed point. If you have the top of the jet pack here on your shoulders and there's literally just a connector that goes from your shoulders, that's a mechanical connection down to the arms. Right. You already have the fuel lines and the electronic controls. You already have those. And so all it would be is like an aluminum aluminum Rod, a set of rods that are free flowing, but then when needed, they lock into place.

If we spending this sort of money, we'd be getting titanium ones, wouldn't we? Because money is no object in this project. And you're right, they'd have some sort of jointing mechanism that on a command could just lock. Because the other interesting thing about this is as well is it's great, as you say, there's chances are you going to get fatigued because holding around in the right sort of areas for a period of time if you're then carrying kit. So the story we're going to be talking about next week is around the medical domain, but pick another domain. Why can't firefighters use this to go and how bad Bush fires are and things like that. But if you just control Burns. Yeah, exactly. That's true, because you'd have to be genius. That would be very clever. We should paint that bit as well. That's what patents we got tonight, isn't it? Yeah, it's good on a live broadcast. Otherwise people. Yeah. But if you then got to carry kit, whatever it is, whatever application you need some tools or something to do whatever it is you're going to do with. But you get there and so you've done a 15 minutes flight with this thing or however, if it's a 15 minutes flight, you can do seven minute flights, you need to get out of there as well. So anyway, you've done whatever distance it is because you can go up to about 100 miles an hour. So that's kind of fast. So you can do that. But you get there and your arms are just tired. How are you then going to carry out have the ability to then go and do the job it is that you've got to do because you're going to be fatigued. But I guess it's an endurance issue. You also bring up another issue of yes, you're fatigued, but then what if a it provides assistance with reducing that fatigue. If it is an exoskeleton like thing, then there's the other piece of it that what if you do lock them into place without your hands in them, and you are then free to use your hands in flight for other things, like, I don't know, carrying important objects or you could almost think about it would reduce your fuel consumption. And I don't know if it actually works because of physics, but if you are a paramedic trying to get somebody on a lightweight stretcher, you just carry them in your arms like this with obviously, assistance. And this thing is able to get you from point A to point B with some automated system. It'd be kind of cool. You could also firefighters take a cat in your arms, like small animals or infants out of burning buildings or anything like that, where it would not require a lot of effort to hold on to something. But you need your hands to do that task or that thing or like, I don't know, this is an example in Ironman, but you have Iron Man who is flying alongside a Helicarrier and performing maintenance on the outside of it. You could theoretically do something like that where, I don't know, you fly up to the side of the building, lock those things in place, Hover work on the thing, quick task, obviously, especially with the flight time. But you have your hands free to be able to do that thing, put them back in boots. That's true. That's true. If you had the suction boots, you'd be good. Thank you. Yeah. But maybe a moving target, maybe you need to perform maintenance on an aircraft while it's flying. You fly out. And again, suction boots or magnetic boots would probably be better in this situation, but no but you need to go and fly up and get you flying alongside, whatever it is. Then you need your attaching mechanism, obviously. Possibly. Maybe you need such a knees, because actually just having the bottom feet wouldn't work very well. But then to be able to do whatever task it is, then detection and go back to where you're going, because there's quite a lot of incidents that happen with aircraft when they're putting down the gear. Oh, yeah. You don't get three lights. So that's where one of the things you then have to go and do a fly by the tower. Can you see if my wheels are locked out? That would be a way of solving some of them issues. Right. You have a launching system at the airport, get the jet pack up in the air. You fly alongside at a low pass, slow and low pass. You lock onto the aircraft, you go in, you do the maintenance, you come out and you land as it's flying by again, safely. And then the plane can land safely. Yeah. Look at that, man. That's a real world solution to a real world, that is. Yeah. You know what, Barry? I am really impressed with our ability to come up with so many practical applications of this technology tonight. I think what we should do is obviously when this bit goes out, we need to tag them into it and say that we are very cheap. This is just what we're doing. Just spitballing out with half an hour worth of time on the podcast. Imagine what we could do in a room with them with a whiteboard. Right? Yeah. Blow them up.

Yeah, you're absolutely right. But it is a cool for me, this is very much along the line of what must have done as well and others where they've had an idea and they've just done it. It's the sort of thing that there's loads and there's some really good YouTube videos of him in the early days when he was just using one thruster and just doing a bit failing, doing a bit, failing, doing a bit succeeding. Then there's two bits and just try and fail, succeed and just go in round that loop time and time and time again. It's really impressive to see that sort of persistence, that sort of drive through something is brilliant. Yeah. It's almost like consistently running up against technical issues in a podcast and failing family succeed. We don't ever get that testers. Anyway, going back to that town hall, did you enjoy doing the town hall? I loved the town hall. Yeah. No, that was fantastic. I think there's some really cool opportunities that I'd like to talk to you about, offline about some of the future things that we can do. And I left that town hall, despite all the technical issues, feeling really positive. I think it's been positively received so far. I think a lot of people learned a lot about the outreach stuff that HFPS is doing. One of the consistent ones I see feedback on is the Government Relations Committee. People didn't kind of understand what the we sit there on the government, but we advocate for human factors in policy, which is pretty Rad. So I don't know. It was a great town hall. I loved hosting it. Hope they'll have me back next time. Despite all the issues, if they don't, I guess I can't blame them. But

talking with my therapist about this because I was very upset in the moment because I felt a lack of control over the situation. Obviously, I'm over here on this side, and what everybody doesn't see is all the buttons I click to make this thing happen. That's me doing it. We don't have anybody else behind the scenes here. Like, I couldn't bring up anybody else because there's nobody else here. But it's me clicking all these buttons, and I'm trying to manage all these transitions. I'm trying to manage people coming in and off, trying to manage slides and navigating through the slides. And I'm also trying to sort of make sure that everything's going off smoothly. And so when I encounter all these technical issues that are outside of my control, it's frustrating. And so everything that happened that day was outside of my control, but it also didn't look great. So one thing that happened that is really unfortunate is that the stream itself didn't go live on their channels. Really. So it was not live on the HF Es channel. It wasn't live on their Facebook or Twitter or anything like that. And it was a technical bug with the software that we're using. That when somebody pairs their channels more than a certain time out, it doesn't allow for those channels to start broadcast what they've done too early. They did them too early. Although that shouldn't be an issue. It really shouldn't be an issue. So they're aware of the issue. The software that we're using here Restream they're aware of the issue. And we're going to ensure that next time, make sure that doesn't happen, is to do it within that week window, although hopefully the problem. So they did it really organized early. Yeah. We got punished for organizing so early. I think it was about 20 minutes to go. Yeah.

Okay. Yeah. So because we were so prepared, we got punished for it. The other thing was obviously the Internet issues outside of my control still really frustrating, especially when that impacts people coming in and off. But again, we ran into very little of those technical issues. All those aside, it was a fantastic event. Highly recommend anyone who hasn't listened to it to go check it out. Hfps is an international organization, too. So no matter where you're listening from in the world, that will be relevant to you, especially as we continue to a little teaser as we can sort of continue our efforts to be international. Yes. We just had in the chat, Isaac, who said Hi. Hi, Isaac. Hi, Issa. Thank you for watching. Thank you for hanging out with us. This is a Human Factors hang out tonight. For anyone joining us, I guess we're 40 minutes, 42 minutes into the stream. Wow. Yeah. With no issues. So what's going on tonight is we're doing a Human Factor hang out a little bit different from our traditional weekly podcast. It's just a matter of all the technical issues. On my end, we may still encounter those. And so we do want to do this week's episode or I guess next week's episode, technically justice. And in order to do that, we need to make sure that there's no technical issues. It's outside of my hands. But hopefully it will be resolved by next week. It will be resolved by next week. It'll either be resolved today while we're doing this, which part of the calculus or tomorrow morning. So on my end, it'll be fine. Are they just going to get a big beef your wire and connect it on your power? I don't know. I think what it is is they're using probably decades old wires. Yes. Well, I guess because there's a whole lot of copper to be replaced. We sort of chat about this the other day and there's like various bits of European. You sort of assume that everybody's got like fiber connections or fiber clothes. Actually, most people don't. We lucky. We do have fabulous house because we were part of an experimental thing when we moved in here, and we were like, wow, that's amazing. But then there's only people who just don't. And particularly in America, where you've got Big Sway or like Australia or a place like Big Sway is of nothingness. So you've really copper connection or even a five connection just isn't a go at your satellite connection or that type of thing. So you sort of assume that everybody's going to have really good connection just because it's just not the case. Yeah. So I don't know if they're replacing a lot of wire or some wire. They said there's one component at least that needs replacing. And I suspect it's largely due to the change in weather. So it's getting a little bit warmer here now, coming out of winter, and with everything warming up, I'd imagine the mechanical connections between some of these things as metal heats and cools, it expands and shrinks. And so I think some of those connections might just be a little loose and they just need to make sure they're good. So I don't know. We'll see. It's really fascinating when you drive past one of the telecom vans and they've got these cabinets on your street open and they're just full of wires. Just from a Usability perspective, you sit there going, how on Earth do you know that that wire and that wire, you just fill with that, and that all works because there seems to be no order. It just seems to be completely, I mean, obviously completely untrained, therefore all that sort of stuff. But it just seems completely chaotic. Right. That sort of thing to go up and say, look, you're a practical practitioner, this just feels offensive. Can you just explain to me what it is you do and how it works? Because they're not paying me. You just don't need to know if they make magic happen. But yes, it just does look crazy. Yeah, it is one of those things where it's like, I would be very curious to see what kind of human factors thought goes into the organizing. And I mean, this is a larger issue, but the human factors organization of workplaces in general, especially ones where you are crafting something because everybody's workflow is very different and people problem solve in different ways, especially when trying to create something out of something else. You're working in a woodworking shop and people prefer different tools and different techniques for different cuts and different joints and all that stuff. And so it's like, how do you organize a workspace that's going to be optimal workflow for 90%, maybe a little bit less optimal for those 10%, but still have everything within a reasonable location within the shop that will naturally flow from one thing to another. Right. Like, where are your tools organized in relation to some of the larger cutting saws? I might be getting too into depth here, but it's just fascinating to me. So we recently been going around with our eldest daughter because she is going to go to University. So the whole University is going to go to blah, blah, blah. So we're going around and looking. And for me, it was fascinating because she's an artist. I am not an artist. I'm an engineer. I don't understand that. I don't get out. I struggle. I think if it's not really basic stuff, yeah, I struggle. So we got an allisbutton. They were talking about the display spaces they have to work with, so they all get their own little work area. The big part for them was obviously the walls, basically two walls, probably about one sheet of board wide. So four foot by eight foot dish, something like that. And then they just have these small tables. And I was like, well, how's your workstation organized? Do you have paint bushes over here if you want to play? Whereas that medium go, how do you sort that? Are you going to label it properly? So you know what type it is? And she was like, dad, it's just there. We just do it. I just really sort of understand how is that space work for you? Which then lenders onto a slightly different problem. So she joined the company with us and a lot of what we do is visualization, even just on a PowerPoint slide, you create a visual for to try and get your message across. I was like, could we use her insight into art to make something happen? So we had a client, still got a client, but we sort of said rather than just doing usual graphics and all that sort of could we come up with because that is on the team, a piece of art that represents the data. Now in my head, that sounded dead easy. You're an arty person. Use some data, make some art out of it. And she's like, well, what do you want? I don't know. You're the artist. But it was really weird because obviously the way artists normally work is they get inspired by something and therefore they create. But then when I was saying this is my requirement is I've got some status, I want you to represent it in an interesting way. Well, that's not inspirational. That's me trying to just give a requirement. So how do you communicate a work package to an artist to deliver? And I was just like, I don't know if I'm getting product engineer, if I'm getting any sort of mechanical engineer, electrical engineering, I could define a piece of work for them to do that. But you've got a point. This is what I want to have. It's going to look like this. This is the function I want to achieve. But to an artist, how do you do that? I don't know. Right. I want to follow up on a couple of things here, Barry, because there's some really interesting things that we're talking about. One, you say you're not an artist, yet you put out a piece of media almost weekly, sometimes bi weekly. And therefore, I would argue that your commentary in a lot of ways is art. I would argue that the pieces of media that you put out into the world, your interview style, your ability to get information out of people on your podcast is a form of art. I would argue that that is. Yeah, I see where you come from. So when you say you're not an artist, I think maybe not a traditional pen on paper modern art when you think of art, yeah, fine. But I would challenge anyone who says they are not an artist to really think about the things that they are creating, because I also believe that translating research into findings and communicating those findings is also an art. And so thinking about things differently may open some channels for people. I also want to follow up on your requirements for art. I think maybe in this case where you are trying to communicate findings in a piece of art. What do you mean by that? Are you saying, like, let's Bruce up a graph? Because I think Edward Tufty would have problems with that. Let's think about maybe. Are you thinking like a word chart or like a word cloud or something like that? I guess artists, they almost thrive by limitations because it forces them to innovate. And we've talked about innovation on the show in the past. I think it'd be interesting when you say art is some sort of you're inspired by something, then I would almost flip that and say, well, aren't you as the person who is driving this requirement required to then inspire and say, like, here's the findings that we have. I'm inspired by this because this is so fundamentally important for the thing that we are trying to do, convey that importance and then have the artist translate that importance into some sort of artistic rendition. And I would completely agree with that, because the way that if you're going to ask them to do something, you've got to fundamentally understand what it is you're asking them to do and to be able to communicate that in a way that is meaningful to both parties. And that's where I couldn't do it. I wanted a piece of art. Well, what do you want that art to do? I don't know. I just know I want a piece of art. Well, who is the audience? Well, he could be anybody. So I wasn't able to come. I just knew I kind of wanted a loose idea, but not in a way that I could communicate in a way that was meaningful for anybody to pick up. So that was the issue that I was facing and how could I communicate in a meaningful way something that she could then pick up and be inspired by and then go to and I just couldn't do it around that point but it was a really interesting learning experience but I now have a better idea about how we do it differently. I would probably go and have a sketch of something that I would try and do myself to sort of get the sort of idea that I was wanting to achieve and then use that as a springboard to say then talk around ideas and stuff like that but it's just going and saying I want some art. It wasn't good enough. Hey, you know that art thing. Give me one of those one of the arts, please. Can you give me two just two one for the front, one for the back. Two arts, please. Yes. Two arts. Black Friday. Yes.

But on the plus side, the thing that she has done for us is we now have rollerballs which are very pretty. I'm quite impressed with them so we got them done in time for the conference. The live conference is in what, three weeks? Something like that. We're going to have them so they go behind wherever it is that we end up getting set up. Thank you, Barry, for the quality comments on jetpacks and art and everything else that we discussed beyond that point. That is not in the traditional podcast but thank you for thank you for hanging out. It's been good fun. I've enjoyed it. And if you've been listening to this, if you can't tell I'm doing an outro for this weird thing. If you've been listening to this, thank you for listening. I know it's not the traditional podcast that we normally do but we thought that there was good enough content here for you to listen to and enjoy. We wanted to put it out there for you. We'll be back next week with another regular episode focused on giving Jet suits jetpacks to paramedics and what the implications of that are. So thank you again for listening for tuning in. We'll be back next week. Take care, everyone. Bye.