E308 - Human Factors at SXSW

(A) 308 - Human Factors at SXSW

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Nick Roome: Okay, I just killed the rest of that. My lipstick's looking pretty. Hey, everybody, welcome back to another episode of Human Factors Cast. This is episode 307. We're recording this episode live on. March 20th, 2025. I'm your host, Nick Rome, and I'm joined today by Megan Michaels. Hello, and Aaron Gustafson.

Welcome, ladies. Barry couldn't make it today, but we have a really exciting show for you all. We're going to be talking about South by Southwest. It's a conference. Maybe you heard of it. It's a big thing. If you're not Aaron, maybe you've heard of it. But we'll get into all that and more.

Don't really have a whole lot of intro for you. So I think we just jump into it. What do you say? Let's get to the news then

Gone a month and I can't even run my own show anymore. All right, so Barry's not here to read the blurb. So I'll read it. So Nick, what's the news story for today? Thanks, Nick. South by Southwest or SXSW is one of the biggest conferences blending tech, design, film, [00:01:00] and music, bringing together innovators from all over the world.

This year, we're diving into how human factors, UX, human centered design were represented at the event. We'll hear from attendees about their key takeaways, standout panels, and how South by Southwest is shaping the future of our field. Once again, welcome to the show, ladies.

Meghan Michaels: Thank you.

Nick Roome: Okay. I have a list of questions.

This is not, it's not prescriptive. We're all friends here. We can talk about this in any way, but first thing, I, I made a little joke at the stop at the top of the show about Aaron, not knowing what South by Southwest is. So I'm going to ask was, I'm going to ask Aaron, what is South by Southwest?

And then answer the question, what is SXSW to you?

Erin Gustafson: Oh, okay. SXSW started as like a film and then music festival, and it's now expanded to be a much larger conference [00:02:00] type setting, but there's still the film and music pieces those artsy pieces that kind of kicked it off. And it's really like a huge meeting of the minds.

If there's something that you want to understand further, connect with people on it's happening there. It's crazy how much they fit in. And there's several different tracks. There's a film and music track, there's an interactive track, there's like a platinum track where you go to everything but basically every day they've designed it really cleverly from a human factors perspective from my thinking they've blocked off, there's like main times, so there's 10 a.

m., 11, and 11. 30, and then like a 12 and like a 2. And that's when most of the. Sessions take place and then you can pick and choose each day. There's an overwhelming amount of options way more than the plus or minus 7 rule that we should have, but they're like, there's so much to do, but then you can narrow down.

So each day is no longer overwhelming. Just the choice of what you do that day is and then there's like entertainment [00:03:00] that your badge gets you into in the evening and different events boxes to scream in all kinds of things and. To me, I think that's, I think that's a good objective description.

But to me I was just blown away. It's a place where you can really network outside of your typical breadth or connections or net I met a lot of people Megan and Molly over there in the comments that I don't think I would have gotten the opportunity to run into. Otherwise, at one point, I was a room away from Ben Stiller.

I met Missy Pyle. What?

Nick Roome: Is that your claim to fame?

Erin Gustafson: No, I think meeting Missy Pyle was probably that she gave me her blender bottle. I traded an empty notebook. For her blender bottle playing the trade game and then my claim to fame is probably my relocation of art from that weekend. If you met me you've seen the videos.

You've heard the story. You probably sent me a picture of a balloon. She'll probably try [00:04:00]

Nick Roome: while we're talking,

Erin Gustafson: but it's just it's a huge melding of. And you have access to, I think, circles that you wouldn't normally have access to.

Nick Roome: Yeah. And Megan, you have a little bit of a different relationship with South by Southwest because you're actually there as a moderator.

Meghan Michaels: Yeah. Aaron really hit the nail on the head in terms of the bringing together of so many. Different industry types, right? So you've got media, you've got tech, you've got government, you've got film and music, all of these different things. And so you literally are in a space with people that you wouldn't normally ever be in the same space with.

And as a result, when you're. Walking around, you've got like the typical conference setting in a convention center where you've got sessions being offered that you can go and listen to or participate in. It's a workshop or it's a book [00:05:00] reading, or you can go into the giant rooms and you can learn about reverse extinction from colossal.

Lots of options, but they also have these individual installations. All of the city where companies are, taking over full buildings for a few days at a time. And within those buildings, they're offering their own focused learning, networking events, all that kind of stuff. So you've got all these multi layers.

Now, 1 of those. Big main events that occurs at South by which once you've gone to South by Southwest, you officially can refer to it as South by. You have to, but as soon as you've gone, or 1 of the things that happens, there is. It is a networking Mecca, not only for established businesses, but also for startup companies.

And so one of the big events that they have there is [00:06:00] startup pitch competition sponsored by South by Southwest. Lots of, like I said, lots of those like houses, those installations, those companies might. might host their own like small startup pitch competition. But this is the big one. There's lots of different categories.

We're talking over 60 different startup companies that have that applied to be part of this. And they go through months and months of mentoring, coaching, preparation. And it takes on lots of different Forms in that process, the startup companies, depending on the category that they're in, they they get paired up with a one on one mentor who meets with them.

They to practice their pitch they create a video with their slide deck that they were that they're going to do on stage and then they submit it. And that's that was my role. I was a video pitch coach. I would receive the videos and then I would provide based on a rubric. I would provide them feedback on, have they hit all their components and elements of, of their pitch?

[00:07:00] What solution are they solving? What's their revenue model? What goodness are they adding to the world with the, with the work they're doing? And so this will go back and forth for a few months. And then during the conference itself, there were, there was a day where they had, they finally got to be on stage and they practiced.

It was a dress rehearsal where they received actual performance coaching on site from an amazing team of people there. And then it was actual pitch day, and it took place over 2 days because they're, like I said, they're over 60. Small startups that were that were pitching and it's again, it's such a unique environment because you have.

So people in the room that wouldn't normally be in the room. There were companies that might be pitching for FinTech or something in the agricultural industry, but there are investors in a completely other industry that are having their minds blown because they're being presented that they just never thought of.

So it's an [00:08:00] incredible opportunity for these people. It's. Immensely exciting. And it is so cool to be part of that kind of a process where you are playing the role in. The potential future of not only a company, but of like real people. So it was a really rewarding experience for sure.

Nick Roome: Yeah. One thing that Barry and I always talk around or throw around the idea of is that innovation happens when you see something happening in another space and apply it to your space. The fact that there's so many different minds from different industries in this one place sharing ideas is really evocative to me, and I've I think I've expressed to both of you.

I'm very jealous that you both got to go, but since I was unable to go, I tasked both of you with bringing me back a A, a status report of how human centered design, human factors, [00:09:00] UX basically the field that this podcast is all about how well is it represented there at HFE or sorry at South by Southwest, because, in the past we've covered other we've covered other conferences, but they've been Specific to human factors like HFES or IEA or neuro Ergonomics Conference.

We've covered conferences, but they've been specific to human factors. And so I'm wondering and Erin, I'll go back to you on this one. What was the representation for human factors, HCD ux, like at the conference?

Erin Gustafson: So I was actually really impressed with the amount of representation there were. Multiple options for sessions every day in every section, I told you there were those basic 4 blocks.

And so there was everything from like, UX and UI designer and researcher meetup to sessions hosted by a researcher from Google, where they talked about, [00:10:00] um. Uncommon research methods and the science that they were based in and how to apply them to 1 of my favorite sessions talked about, like, getting back to our roots and what actually is human centered design.

And what do we care about? And so there was definitely a lot to learn a lot to think on and then there were a lot of, um. Human centered design adjacent ideas, right? So Megan and I went to a session that was given by an interior designer about designing office spaces to be more neuro friendly.

And I think that somebody in the human factors or UX field, or in human centered design could really pull a lot of ideas just from that, Tangential presentation and she was really honest that this isn't something she's studied. This is a thing that she's done with her life.

And it's important to her and she has data from just, her doing her job. But I think there's a lot we can learn and pull into the field [00:11:00] from those very important and adjacent topics. And I would say it, it's very well represented. There were a lot of researchers there. There were a lot of designers there who specialize in either human centered design or UX and UI.

I didn't see. anybody really labeling themselves outside myself as a human factors engineer. But, we're all there's a lot of overlap in our fields.

Nick Roome: Yeah, for sure. And Megan, I know your background is more in education. So I associate you human factors and HCD by affiliation by those who you work alongside and the way that your brain thinks.

So I'm curious, from your perspective what is your take on the representation there? And were there any surprises for you?

Meghan Michaels: Aaron did a nice job of really encapsulating what it was like. I think the thing that. Continued to strike me were the, just the options that were available.

And when we think [00:12:00] about how how do we ensure that we're meeting the needs of all of the people that were, that we're trying to serve it's not just about it's not just about topic variety, right? It's about how you're going to be receiving that information and interacting with that information.

And so you really, you've got the full spectrum of full on just I'm going to sit and listen, right? To the ability to have, they had mentor sessions, they had full on workshops, they had full interactive experiences where you could Fully walk into the experience. There was a I wasn't able to go to it cause it, it was the day after we left, but literally it was a session where the whole space was a giant bathroom.

Did you see that Aaron? Yeah. So you could, and it was all about various ergonomic structures and ideas of the. Future of bathrooms and where they were going, which is hilarious and awesome, you can have the best [00:13:00] conversations when you're immersed in that space. Really speaking to all of the different ways that people are able to process, connect.

And then apply what it is they're learning and experiencing to make it their own and then share with others. And I think really that's one of the biggest and most important takeaways of South by is that you're taking away the goodness that is, is there. And you're able to embrace if you, if I will say, if you are able to, and Aaron and I talked about this there's two ways to approach a conference.

There is the I'm going to plan every minute of the day, or I'm going to plan to not have a plan. And when you do that, it allows you to do what Molly just said, intentionally embrace chaos. Cause it is, there is a lot happening. Literally we were walking down the road and there was a random thing for the love is blind show and the cast [00:14:00] was out there taking pictures and people could ask questions.

And then we turned to the corner and Aaron saw a marching band followed by 20 dudes and assless chaps walking by. And then we turned to the corner and there was. a soundproof box that you could go into and scream and have a competition with who could scream the loudest. And there was, so there was a decibel meter in there.

So no connectedness, but fully connected all at the same time. So what do you take away from that? People get to be people. And that was great.

Nick Roome: That is cool. Aaron, I want to go back to something that you said that kind of ties into a comment here that Barry is now showing up fashionably late in the comments, even though he can't be here tonight, he's still here on the comments.

Thank you for your comment, Barry. He asks, is human factors, not just fashionable in such an environment. Now you said that you were the only one wearing human factors engineer on your badge. But did the term human factors come up at all while you were there?

Erin Gustafson: I don't want to definitively say no, because based on the sessions I [00:15:00] chose, and there were, there were times when I chose between multiple things that were relevant to our field, right?

So I was the only other person I saw with that label. But I'm sure that there was someone else there that identified as such. And I don't think the greater field in general, right? When we expand to include how psychology affects design in whatever way that is UX UI research design, human centered design, whatever word vomit we want to use.

Which, hey, maybe somebody should figure out what all those terms really specifically mean. But

Nick Roome: maybe submit a paper.

Erin Gustafson: Yeah, maybe we should submit a paper. But the topic was taken seriously, right? 1 of the presentations that I went to I was actually really impressed because as somebody who's I think it's really serious and identifies more with that human factors term like I think we those of us in the field associate a little bit more rigor with human factors.

And so I'm always got my ear out for, but where's the science? [00:16:00] And. One of the sessions that I went to on like nontraditional research methods really talked about like how the methods were based in science and their first tip for if someone was going to apply nontraditional methods was don't make shit up.

They're like, we got this method from looking into this research, there's like papers that back it up. And now we're trying it in practice. And it's not common, but people have looked into it. Don't just randomly do something and say, it's going to work when you're already in the space.

Study by all means, try something, write a paper on it, but before don't apply the data before, the data is valid. No, I don't think it was just fashionable. I was pleasantly surprised and impressed actually, by how much thought went into those presentations and they weren't just buzzwords.

Meghan Michaels: Yeah, everything that we saw was, there was always data associated with it. So it wasn't, yeah, it wasn't lip service in any sense.

Nick Roome: That's good to hear. [00:17:00] And so Erin, you were bringing up some of the panels that stood out to you. Megan, how about you? What are some of the panels that stood out to you and why?

Meghan Michaels: I went to a pretty wide variety. I did spend some time going to some defense tech type experiences to, to learn about SIBRs and dual use technology and things like that. Cause. That's our field. So I did. I did that. Also, like I said, I went to a reverse extinction conversation. That was fascinating.

Shout out to the woolly mammoose man mouse. Yeah that was very cool. I spent a lot of time with pitch competition. The design the neuro inclusive design session that Aaron and I went to was mind blowing. And I think mostly because it was. Because I felt it, I identified with so many of the use cases that she provided and how she talked about the strain [00:18:00] that, that people feel in various office settings with.

Specific not it wasn't just about furniture. It was about light. It was about the ability to see and not be locked off. It was about how sound travels it was about live plants that you know having the ability to move throughout the day and not just be at your desk the entire time So that I was flashing back throughout My career history about all of the different places that I had worked in the places that I had felt the most successful, the most healthy, the most productive, all of those sorts of things and how correlated to my work life balance on either side.

But then also now working remotely, it really Aaron and I talked about this on the way out the door. I was like, I wonder. I wonder what this means for my home office set up. How can I really make sure that I am maximizing my design at home while also making sure, like [00:19:00] my house is still functional.

What does that look like? And it was just I don't know that, just that, that's stuck in my head over and over again.

Erin Gustafson: If I can add to that to the thought, the part I thought was really impressive was that company and that specific woman, she has made all of her resources available.

They didn't keep the things proprietary. To their company. And so you can buy her book, which she's written, which like, it's the kind of book that where you could teach a class on it. But also she has a couple of guides that are just like, you could scan and get the QR code. Nick, I actually sent them to you.

So that random message you got from me in the middle of that day, that was what that was. We send them to you. I don't know if you link things to the. Show notes or whatever, but those resources are readily available because she's so passionate about making sure that everyone is included in design.

And the example that [00:20:00] she kept talking about was, a certain percentage of people use a wheelchair. It's not the majority, but we've changed. Sidewalks everywhere positively impact people in wheelchairs and the impact went further than people in wheelchairs, right? It's people with strollers are positively impacted people who are trying to wheel things on a cart.

You're not tripping when you're crossing the street. There's all kinds of positive benefits from paying attention to inclusive design. That positively impact people who weren't even designed for.

Nick Roome: Yeah, that's super cool. And definitely feels like that one is like firmly within the like human centered design or human factors domain because it is just designing around humans.

I'm curious about the opposite. Were there any panels that were not? Necessarily like human factors or UX are really like related to our field. But were there any panels [00:21:00] that you went to that did not fall into that, that you actually found related to your work in any way? Erin, I guess I'll start with you since you said, oh yeah.

Erin Gustafson: I'm trying I should remember their names because these women were like firsts in their fields. But I went to a book reading on. To women who have been in broadcasting since before it was common for. Women to work for ESPN and they talked about the books that they had just written on that subject about being the only the only 1 in the room.

And I really connected with it a lot because so I started in mechanical engineering. That's what my bachelor's is in. And I went to Michigan tech and Michigan tech is known for their 3 to 1 guy to girl ratio. So there were large lecture halls that I would be in where there were only maybe 2 other women.

There'd be like 150 people and it's just me and like that other girl over there that now lives in the same town I do and we laugh about being the only two women in class. But so I really connected with their [00:22:00] stance of being the only being the first. not knowing who to talk to about that experience, not maybe not having somebody else to bounce it off of or feeling like when you're explaining it, people don't really get it.

And they were talking about how you can use that as a power, use that as a gift. And honestly, then I watched them do it as a guy that really was not asking a question, got up and just started talking about himself in the question session. So they very carefully navigated out of that, but they were just really talking about how.

Being the only person in your field can be a positive thing and learning how to work through that, learning how to advocate for yourself and advocate for maybe what you can bring to the table and then also learning from others and finding your allies in those situations. And so it really made me reflect a lot.

I think as. UX, UI, human factors, engineers. Sometimes we can, it's more common than not that we're the only one of us on a team, right? And especially in some of the places that we work, sometimes we're advocating for our [00:23:00] work. We're advocating for the user. We're advocating against maybe the easiest engineering solution because, it doesn't include the human. It's not as usable, right? And so we can be at odds a lot of times with what other disciplines really hold dear. And so that combined with the previous experience of kind of being the only girl in the room I really connected with that talk. Anderson is her last name.

I really wish her first name. It was coming to me because I feel like she deserves a shout out, but she still works for ESPN.

Meghan Michaels: Erin Anderson,

Erin Gustafson: and Marie, I think it is.

Meghan Michaels: Look, pulling it up,

Erin Gustafson: keep talking. Yeah, so that was really good. And then I also got to listen to Rene Brown. And that was really cool.

She was actually on a tennis podcast, which I don't, I played tennis in high school. I don't know a lot about tennis guys, but so I didn't recognize the big name in tennis, but it was [00:24:00] very exciting that he was there too. I picked up on once I was, but she was talking about. Sports psychology and some of her different work.

It was a little bit of different light on what she researches, which is very closely related to human factors in my opinion, because it's all about, performance and believing in yourself and how you navigate in the world. And so that was really awesome to listen to and their responses and question and answer session was really cool.

People asked about losing a loved 1. About, like, how to take the next step in their career, and they had just really good solid comebacks where it was, like, clear that it's up to you, but here's an idea of how you might fragment that I was really impressed with. And then, there's so much, even just screaming in the box.

Like I,

Meghan Michaels: and I think, okay, so I'll add to that, but it was Annemarie Anderson, and her book was called cultivating audacity.

Erin Gustafson: Yes. [00:25:00] Annemarie.

Meghan Michaels: I think what is is so cool about South by is just the ability to have your own. Human experience, right? Like the screen box is a really great example of that.

I can't tell you how many, it was there for a couple of days. I cannot tell you how many times I walked past it and every person's reaction was the same. Oh my God, this is so funny. Then you watch them go in and they scream their heads off. And they come out, and they look like different people. The release that they had.

And it was the only place that they ever thought it was okay to do that. Someone gave them a safe space. Let it all out. And that's powerful. That's really powerful. The other thing probably seems really silly. Maybe even vain. But Aaron and I [00:26:00] did one of the best experiences while we were there.

You know what they did? Outside they're in a parking lot. There was a semi truck that was basically like deconstructed like transformer and it flipped up on the top and up on the top. There were four hair stylists inside the truck. There was, it was opened out to the side and there was like this big.

Stage inside L'Oreal was demoing and promoing a brand new supersonic, crazy, amazing hairdryer. Doesn't seem like a big deal, but if you are a person that uses a hairdryer every day, a hairdryer can make or break your day. They had, a couple of women there who and men there who were working to promo this new device, but in the process, you could put your name in line and you could get a blow [00:27:00] out from a stylist.

or free with the new hair dryer. Any person who has ever had a blow, a hairdryer blowout done on their hair, it is relaxing. You feel amazing afterwards. Your hair looks so beautiful. It's so shiny. It's got volume. You just had a professional hair treatment for free. And we walked out with a whole bag full of all kinds of Swag of like hair treatments and things that smelled good and lotions and probably, I can't, I don't, I have no idea how much all of that stuff was.

Was worth, but

Erin Gustafson: I do,

Meghan Michaels: it was not a lot, but again, human experience, right? There was an opportunity where you could, yeah, you could [00:28:00] experience a new tool. If you had 475 spent on a new hairdryer, awesome. Great. You could buy it, but that was secondary to the experience and the experience was we see you, this is a time for you to relax and let somebody treat you for a minute, and that is priceless.

Especially with the rate at which, we are cut the speed that we are constantly moving and we are at the beck and call of so many people and so frequently putting other people before ourselves. That was honestly like, probably some of the top 15 minutes of the entire time, it just, I don't know.

It's, it's it was just a reminder of pause.

Erin Gustafson: And even that was a learning experience, right? I learned, yeah, I learned that I didn't actually know that your hair could look the same way all day with a [00:29:00] certain amount of jushing. So that was an engineering feat in itself to me.

And then. We also learned a ton from the assistant product manager. She was incredible.

Meghan Michaels: She was very incredible. We had a little bit of time to wait. So we were like, pitch us. Let's see how does this work? Tell us your story. It was fascinating.

Erin Gustafson: And her whole story was cool. Like I learned a lot about a whole nother field.

Meghan Michaels: Oh my gosh, it was amazing. Shout out to L'Oreal and how they like their whole process for how they. how they onboard and train leaders in their company. Phenomenal. She was in a full year long program.

Like amazing.

Nick Roome: Yeah. I feel like I have to throw a disclaimer on this. Now this podcast episode brought to you by L'Oreal hair care. I think this is a great time for us to take just a quick little break. And we'll be right back right after this.

Yes, [00:30:00] truly. Thank you. Thank you. As always to our patrons, you all truly keep the lights on and special shout out to our sponsor L'Oreal. Great hair starts with L'Oreal Paris. Whether you're battling frizz, craving deep hydration, or protecting your color, our expert formulas give you salon quality results right at home.

Stronger. Shinier. Healthier hair. You got it. Powered by premium ingredients and advanced hair science because you're worth it. Try L'Oreal Paris hair care today available wherever you shop. Okay. So again, we're here. That was fake. We're not actually so if you want to pay us for that And the previous

Meghan Michaels: time,

Nick Roome: Clearly their marketing is working because you got me to do a read and you all had a fantastic experience and learned a lot.

I want to get back to an interesting concept that both of you have been bringing up is that, that South by I have to refer to the full thing because I haven't been there South by [00:31:00] Southwest is is an everything conference and there's like everything. From music to tech, to investing, to everything, right?

There's so many different types of experiences there. And the reason I want to touch on this just a little bit is because I'm curious, were there any sort of trends that were emerging across the field or across all these varying industries? Was there anything that came out? That's Hey there's something happening.

Was there anything you picked up on while you were there?

Erin Gustafson: It's ingrained in everything we see everywhere right now anyway, but AI was a huge topic. It was in the film track. It was in the music track. It was a joke in the comedy set we went to. It was with it, there were sessions that connected to human factors that you could watch on it like that AI and how we're going to use AI and what that means was definitely woven throughout.

Nick Roome: Were there any takeaways? [00:32:00] Were there any consensus among,

Erin Gustafson: that's harder for me to answer just because of the scope of what I chose to go to and what I was super interested in. I leaned a little more into the human aspects than the machine while I was there. But. I don't know.

I don't know, Megan, if you had a different takeaway, but my main takeaway was just that oh, it's coming. It's here. Everybody's trying to use it.

Meghan Michaels: Oh, yeah. Yeah. It wasn't especially in especially in a lot of the defense tech sessions that I attended. I literally sat and listened to an entire panel.

That was all about AI. It's. It is everywhere. I think the thing that I found interesting about it was there is very intentional, there's a very intentional focus on the ethics around it. And ensuring that the people that we are creating systems for that and that are embedded with [00:33:00] AI, our safety is being considered and, the language models that are being used to build the database, the databases for it, it's.

It's not just being thrown together, is what I'm trying to say, it's, there, there's a really important human element that's driving it.

Nick Roome: That's interesting. Yeah, because I feel that AI right now is this battle of Tech trying to advance, but also trying to do it in the right way without any sort of regulation.

So it's interesting that you bring up ethics as as one of the key talking points and it's encouraging to hear I guess as we round out the hour here have a few more questions to wind us down. Um, I want to talk a little bit about. The unexpectedness of finding things that you weren't expecting.

That's what unexpected means. . So I guess, did you find any sort of mo what was the most unexpected moment, that's a better way to phrase it. What is the boast best, most [00:34:00] unexpected moment that you had that was either thought provoking or just genuinely changed your outlook on something?

Erin Gustafson: I feel like I. I feel like I need to shout out Molly for this one. It was a pleasure to meet Molly. Megan and Molly have been friends for a long time and she was our south by guide there and

her careful mentorship as I rearranged an art installation that, that weekend really really has stuck with me. I think it stuck with a lot of the people that I met. And I would even go so far to say that maybe it even gave me a name. I think that it allowed me to put down my mark that and she also encouraged me to play the trade up game and I met, I mentioned earlier meeting Missy pile, but I, if she hadn't have been nudging me really and Megan too, but Molly seems to have the ideas, but, I don't know. I think [00:35:00] I've networked in a way that I never networked before, and I just really enjoyed a professional setting in a way that I hadn't before. So I would say the art reinstallation really stuck out most to me.

Nick Roome: Okay, hang on. I'm getting reports there was a missing balloon stand. Do the news?

There's a missing balloon stand. Cannot

Erin Gustafson: confirm or deny.

Nick Roome: From some hotel at South by Southwest they're still looking, they're hot pursuit for the perpetrator from a

Erin Gustafson: hotel. That doesn't sound right. It wasn't a hotel.

Nick Roome: Okay. It must be

Meghan Michaels: a different perpetrator.

Nick Roome: I guess we can tell that story at the end if you're comfortable with it and want to Megan what was the most unexpected moment for you?

Meghan Michaels: A couple, I think that for me attending the events in the evening where where there was the really heavy networking that was happening, that was I don't even know how to describe it. You meet people that you [00:36:00] just never. To meet people that you have way more in common with than you would have ever expected to have things in common with people who are kind, people who are funny people who are brilliant, people who are launching brand new businesses and things you wouldn't ever think.

Of launching I stood and talked to this guy for a really long time next to a machine that was, um, embroidering a handkerchief with my nickname on it while he told me all about his augmented reality app that he had developed for phones. Dinosaurs could show up everywhere, stuff like that, and then the next minute I was talking with, vice presidents of companies and executive directors of various organizations and, former officers of [00:37:00] the military and, it's just, it's fascinating to me.

How many different people there are in the world and how we all have our own unique mark that we can make. But when we connect with people in settings that wouldn't normally be where we would meet them, that's where just such wonderfully cool conversations can occur. I think especially being a woman in our field and working, we like to say we're in the, we're in the good guy defense stuff, or I like to talk about how we work on the boring things that make the world go round.

And if they aren't working, then the world doesn't go around. It was so wonderful to meet so many other women. Working in defense tech and hearing about their experiences, learning about, making those connections so that you, we're broadening the web of support and raising voices and creating new [00:38:00] opportunities.

That stuff is just priceless. For me especially it was really about. Stepping outside of my comfort zone, I've known a lot of people for a long time. One of the things Aaron and I talked about was one night we were sitting around a table and there were a lot of a pretty big time executives sitting at the table and she was like.

Look at who's sitting here. And I was like, yeah, five years ago, we weren't like all of these people weren't at this level yet, but what happens is when you develop connections with people and then you nurture them over time, five years later, 10 years later, you're looking at a very different setup at the table now.

And that doesn't happen when you just go and just shake somebody's hand. It happens when you go and shake someone's hand and you genuinely take the time to get to know them. One of my favorite things to say to people is not, it's nice to meet you. It's nice to know you. And that hits different.

It just was expanding all of those connections. And then even just in the last [00:39:00] week, since being a home, continuing additional conversations with those people to. Really foster a future partnership of whatever, you never know what opportunities are waiting in the wings that somebody else has brewing that they're just waiting for the right person, the right company, the right idea to pop out of the woodworks and capital as you're talking.

I really tried to take advantage of those. those events. When I wasn't doing the coaching piece for the startups was so rewarding. It was unbelievable to see. I Aaron, how many 32? I reviewed 32 different companies in my feedback and the seeing so many of them present and, having gone from where they were initially to You know where they were on their pitch day, it was just, I felt like a proud little [00:40:00] parent they had just grown so much, but it wasn't just about the presenting, it was about these companies that were part of the program.

They really did have an element of putting goodness into the world. And to hear all of these incredible companies who had just. They weren't just like napkin ideas at this point. These are companies that have already been started and they have prototypes or they've been running for a little while.

So they're already proving that their idea works and that they are helping the world and just to hear their stories and see where they wanted to go. It was just. Just really tried to rest in those experiences and and think about how, that looks moving forward and what that looks like in my daily life.

Nick Roome: Yeah. So what I'm hearing is that every moment was unexpected for you. Is that right?

Meghan Michaels: Yeah. Truly, like literally the morning [00:41:00] after. We got there, Aaron and I were, we're talking and we legitimately said, okay, our plan is to not have a plan. There's, there are a few sessions that we absolutely want to make sure that we go to right.

That were related to the work that we do. Because they looked interesting. They, we knew that we'd be able to learn something from them. We knew that we'd be able to have a little bit of networking opportunities in those. We also had networking events that we were specifically. Signed up to go to in the evenings, but the space in between is where you would embrace the chaos and let yourself end up where you were just going to end up because there was something new around the corner at every single turn.

And the, there was so much change happening from day to day. The screen box was only there for 2 days. We were there for five. There was other things that were, there was a the thing that took its place was an olive in [00:42:00] June like RV type thing. Olive in June is a nail polish.

And you could go in and you could get manicures and you could do like stuff changed. It was like the food truck of food trucks of

Announcer: Experiences.

Meghan Michaels: Yeah,

Erin Gustafson: I really, I want to add to Megan, I had said this to Nick behind the scenes, but now that you were saying.

I'm just talking about networking. First, networking there was so different than any conference I'd ever been to, and it, something about it felt much more genuine. But I think part of that much more genuine piece I realized afterwards that I had never had an opportunity as women in my field before, to watch other women.

Like a lot of times when I've been on a business trip in the past or at a conference, it's been largely in the company of like men, which is great. There's tons I can learn from them too. But I think there's something to be said for having a role model that looks like you. And so getting to watch Megan network and do what she called holding court in the [00:43:00] evening it.

Light bulbs, literally, and that sounds dramatic, but it really clicked for me much differently than other experiences I had. Networking doesn't need to be a stiff handshake and elevator pitch. There's a time and a place for that, but Network can be just genuine connection, which I just related to a lot more.

And I think both Megan's style and getting to watch that combined with the setting of South by where things are just a little more. natural and laid back in that way. I think that was an unexpected benefit or an unexpected thing that I learned.

Nick Roome: Yeah. Okay. We're almost out of time, so I have to ask the question.

Are we going to comment on the balloon thing or no?

Erin Gustafson: There was a balloon arch. It was relocated. Some nice young men may have opened the door when asked and a security guard may have just watched that balloon arch go right by it, that may have happened. [00:44:00]

Nick Roome: And how it happened, we don't know. I guess the last question we can end with is reflecting on your experience.

Two questions. One, how would you improve this for the human factor side of things? And then two which kind of goes along with it is, would you recommend human factors folks or HCD or UX or however you identify it, go to

Meghan Michaels: Megan, you go first.

Erin Gustafson: I keep going first.

Meghan Michaels: Yeah, without a doubt there is no world in which you could go to that conference and walk away with nothing.

None. There is so much to learn, to do, to experience. We didn't even touch on the fact that there was an entire expo there too. Yeah. I got so much free stuff. It was great. But yeah it is what you make it though too, [00:45:00] right? Like you could go and just like only do one style of.

Of learning, you could go to sessions for where you sat for a half an hour and just listen to people. You could do that. Or you could go the whole gamut and do all of the wild and crazy things too and go to concerts and comedy shows and those things in terms of improving it. I think maybe the 1 thing that is not communicated.

And that you don't know unless somebody tells you about it is the plan and I have a plan you got to embrace the chaos, or you're going to be uncomfortable because there's a lot that you can't control about the entire experience. I don't know. That's the only thing I would change

Nick Roome: Aaron.

What about you?

Erin Gustafson: Yes, this conference is definitely for human factors professionals. I think, especially in, if you're in the exact place I was where you need to let a little bit of rigidity out of it and remember why you got into this field. [00:46:00] It was very inspiring in that way and allows you to draw inspiration from lots of other places if you want to let yourself go.

Because I am who I am, though, and I do have my background, the 7 plus or minus 2 rule was not applied in their app, and it could be overwhelming to even understand what your options were for that day for that hour. So I think that, 1st of all, the app was amazing. As conference apps go, this 1 is top tier, but I think if they were going to take this step further maybe there could be some color coding or to help guide you.

But then at the same time, that sort of tracks

Meghan Michaels: were like, interactive or platinum or music or, but even those tracks. They

Erin Gustafson: were overwhelmed. Yeah. So on 1 hand, I think it could be good to help you sort through things and you can sort by search for words or filters. But on the other hand, I do think part of South by is embracing the chaos.

So I don't. I don't know if that would take away from the experience, but [00:47:00] there being more than nine options per hour was a lot.

Nick Roome: Got to pick something to go with it.

Erin Gustafson: Yeah.

Nick Roome: Uh, thank you both so much for being on the show. That's going to be it for today. If you liked this episode and are enjoy some of our discussion around previous conferences, you can go and look for any of those in our backlog or in our.

Back catalog, I should say, not our backlog. I'm still in work mode. Comment wherever you're listening with what you think of South by Southwest. Is it intriguing to you? Would you like to go next year? Can we get a press pass next year for the podcast? Cause I would, I'll go with you.

I'd love to do that. For more in depth discussion, you can always join us on our discord community, visit our official website, sign up for our newsletter, stay up to date with all the latest human factors news. If you like what you hear, you want to support the show. There's a couple of things you can do.

One you can leave us a five star review wherever you're listening right now that'll help other people find us too speaking of networking. You can tell your friends about us. That really helps the show grow. And three, if you have big bucks, like some of those investors down there [00:48:00] and want to support us, you can do that on Patrion as always links to all of our all of our socials and our website are in the description of this episode, Megan Michaels, Aaron Gustafson.

Thank you so much for being on the show today. Where can our listeners go and find you if they want to learn more about L'Oreal Paris hair care.

Meghan Michaels: You can find me on LinkedIn,

Erin Gustafson: Megan Michaels. Same. Aaron Goss has been. If you found her, you've probably found me because we're connected. We are connected. We're also connected, Nick.

Nick Roome: Yeah, and if you found them, you probably found me. I've been your host Nick Roome. You can find me on Discord across social media at Nick underscore Roome.

Ladies, you know how this goes. At the end, we all say it depends. Thanks again for tuning in to Human Factors Cast. Until next time, it

Meghan Michaels: depends!