E306 - All Things CES2025

[00:00:00] Nick Roome: Hey everyone. It's been a minute. It's episode 306. We're recording this episode live on January 9th, 2025. You can find us here in the future. and this is human factors cast. I'm your host, Nick Rome. I'm joined today by Mr. Barry Kirby.

[00:00:15] Barry Kirby: Hello there and happy new year.

[00:00:17] Nick Roome: Happy New Year to you! we have a somewhat unorthodox show for you tonight.

I decided during the pre show to just cut the music and go straight into this. Because, look, it's been a couple months since we put out an episode. There's a lot to catch up on. we found ourselves talking about X and Y. And Twitter and some of the changes made on those platforms during the pre show.

There's other things that we can talk about. We'll also talk about some of the stuff coming out of CES this week. It's one of my favorite episodes to do is to look at some of the new technologies coming out of that space. But first I want to give a quick shout out to Barry for being here. what's going on over at 1202.

It's been a while. So what's, new.

[00:01:01] Barry Kirby: It has been a while. And we finished off, 2024 with. quite frankly, one of these episodes, one of these interviews that I've wanted to do for a long time, but I've almost been too scared to do because it is a meet your heroes episode. And that is an interview with professor Sarah Sharples.

And she's somebody who's inspired a lot of my work greatly, inspires me almost every time I go and listen to her speak. and that episode went out in the first couple of weeks of December. And, was just a real insight. She is the chief, one of the chief scientific officers in the UK government.

now it's really providing human factors at that level. In fact, Nick, you'll like this because she is chief scientific, officer in the department of transport.

[00:01:46] Nick Roome: And so

[00:01:46] Barry Kirby: she's all over one of your favorite subjects. and Yeah, so she's really inspiring. So love doing that episode.

It was, I was really nervous about whether it would go the way I wanted it to, but I should have been really serious. Fantastic. And so that is there for 2025. We're going to try and switch the format up a bit. Oh, this is, in a discussion that is going on because at the moment 12 or two is my sort of little hobby horse is what I do on a Friday because it's fun.

but we're going to try and change it up a bit. So try make it a bit more relevant. So we are still going to be doing the interviews. as we usually do. but then we're going to, if we get it right, and this is going to take some planning and stuff, so this could all go wrong. So I might be saying stuff here that never actually happens.

But the idea is that we're going to do an interview and then for the next episode, we are going to do a round table discussion about the interview that we previously did. and so how that works. works. And because my, basically my team wants to come and play, they want to come and have a go at doing some of this stuff as well.

And we want to try and do some more of the discussion format type stuff, a bit like what we're doing. but really focused around, co joining these episodes together. So that may or may not work. but we're going to give it a go. And the downside of this is it's going to take a little bit of planning, which as we know, I'm fairly rubbish at.

so we'll see what happens, but 2025, hopefully a bit more on that bit more focus on the short form media as well, the social media. so like the TikTok stuff, to try and get, to capture the, newer, younger audiences that we're like, we've tried to do in the past couple of years and I keep on doing it in fits and bursts.

but trying to get a bit more continuity there. So all great ideas as a new year's resolutions that I'm going to be a great podcaster everything this year. Let's see where we're at mid year.

[00:03:45] Nick Roome: You got it, man. You got my support. All right. let's, I guess then get into the news. Is that what we do?

Is that apparently, I think, I

think sorry, Barry. I cut you off,

[00:04:00] Barry Kirby: dude, a couple of months out. And then I'm just pressing the internet button over here.

[00:04:07] Nick Roome: Oh, geez. All right. so like I said, this one's a little weird. we don't really have blurbs prepared, but there's a few things that I think have happened in the last couple of months that at least are top of mind for me.

and one of these that I was about to bring up in the pre show, but I thought would be great for content here in the main show is have you seen that the Facebook and Instagram meta has, put out these AI, these AI people on their platforms?

[00:04:33] Barry Kirby: No, I haven't yet. I've, heard about it, but I haven't actually seen the thing.

So educate me.

[00:04:40] Nick Roome: Sure. so the gist of it is that they have these AI. Profiles that are completely generated by AI. They have a complete backstory. They, all their pictures are generated by AI. And the whole purpose for this is to basically drive engagement, right? So these profiles would engage with content and strike up conversation and hopefully drive other real users to come to these posts and engage with those profiles.

It's all in an effort to drive engagement. And it's, wild to me. There's been a lot of pushback to say, what the hell? The hell are you doing here? what is, what's this for? and so I think that's fascinating thing to me. Cause it relates back to the dead internet theory and all, the whole of is any, anything that we're interacting with here?

[00:05:29] Barry Kirby: Real. this is when it first came up. I was intrigued by it. Cause I, on the one hand, I got it because it's a bit like, if you're just the lone voice shouting in, shouting out into, Facebook space and and, you're not, nobody's hearing because you need some of that interaction to make it work.

we, often strive to, we do it here. we, encourage, people that if they're listening or they're watching, if you're listening and you're watching now, drop us a message where you're at. So then we can interact with that message. I get that. And that's a hint, by the way, if you're watching and listening, then just drop a message wherever you're doing that.

And we will respond to it. if you do that, then, that makes better content. but if there's nobody listening to you, then, I guess that's where then bots could be useful, but you're right though, if you're only talking to the bots, and then, we've now also got the flip side where there's a lot of content being produced.

by bots, like original, supposedly original content. And then you're just going to get, which we've mentioned on previous episodes and numerous occasions, it's just going to end up being that cycle of bots talking to bots. And as you say, where's the real injection of human input? What's the point?

I thought it was interesting that all of that was coming about at the same time, or at least on now on the, on the back of that, where also is getting rid of all the fact checking.

[00:06:53] Nick Roome: Yeah,

[00:06:54] Barry Kirby: facial fact checked fact checking, which has also raised a, variety of commentary on that, which, surprised because on the one hand, the fact that they're doing that and getting and following on, largely from the X model of ham community notes, I was like, truly, quite a lot of people have said that's terrible.

you're getting rid of, again, a layer of, of almost security for what it is you're watching, but then somebody else made, An interesting comment that I don't think they, it was, they, I think they meant it more funny, but I think actually holds true when you're in a pub or a social situation and people are chatting around you, you don't have somebody else sat there fact checking everything else that's going on in your local gossip group.

but yet you still want to see somebody saying something that is largely complete rubbish. You can call them out for it, or you can disregard it. Are we saying that on social media, we can't do the same? and I think the answer is probably no, we can't because you can't, it's a different type of thing, but it's about how we manage our community.

so yeah, it's better seems to be going down, a bit of a, a weird journey at the moment. And I don't know, is it because they're now not the, at the front of the pack or do they not think they're at the front of the back and they have to follow everybody else? What, do you think is driving behind it?

[00:08:28] Nick Roome: I don't know. I think I want to touch on a few things that you talked about. One, so the engagement for, for. the AI profiles, right? I think you bring up a good point and I can see like you said, I can see the merit in wanting to do that. But at the same time, it's take what we're doing right here.

For example, let's say we see a number, let's say we just opened up a new account on a brand new website that doesn't. Have anything on it. And we set up our human factors, cast account, and we go to it and we say, Hey, we're here, we're streaming over here. And we're a fairly niche community, really niche community.

And on this new platform. They have, let's just say we're streaming there and they have these, these AI profiles that, that would interact with us and say, Oh, you're, a human factors engineer. And, you're going to interact with this content based on what they're saying live.

That would be cool to have an AI agent just in the chat, just poking out type, like additional points. Cause it might drive us to talk about additional points that we may not have thought about. People can do that too. So yes, if you are watching, please leave us a little note here.

If there's thoughts that you have about the meta AI profiles or anything like that. So I can see the merit in that, but then also there's false sense of importance, inflation, I don't know what to call it, but it's if I see an inflated number, that profile would theoretically count as a viewer count.

And so I'm in my head thinking that there are more people, a part of this community than there actually are. And so then that expectation versus The reality of everything, is, way out of alignment when, especially when you go to like conferences and stuff and you see all the people. And, you might be looking for one of these really, avid posters in your community turns out they're an AI profile this entire time.

And there's no like good sort of. I just, it, would feel bad because I'll echo it again, I say this every time I come back from a conference. It's folks like you who are listening and watching right now who stop by the booth that say, Hey, I listened to your podcast. and no matter how it, how the message comes across, if it's as small as Hey, I listen to you while I'm running in the morning, or I listen to you while I do my dishes.

Or, Hey, your podcast changed my life in a really significant way. It doesn't matter to me the degree at which, that happens. It's just that the fact that it happens at all keeps me going. And so when it, when you would have this inflated profile thing happening with the AI profiles and whatnot, you would get a very different sense of community, that is not a real.

Sense of community aligned with what is actually happening. And I think there's dangers in that, to go, to, to the next point here with the sort of reduction of, fact checkers, or elimination, I should say, of fact checkers. I think there's, the, analogy that you had put out there.

There's a few things that I want to point out with that. Yes, you're right. That's how it works in, in, And a pub or in, a bar or something where, the conversation is kept between a small. Group of people. And if a message got out there, it might hit the ears of maybe 30 people with an earshot, not much danger there. the danger comes from when you're posting some things like misinformation and there's no one to come back and say, this has been fact checked as false, and, I think a fact checked as a message has a stronger Inherent trust to it, then perhaps something like community note.

What does a community note mean? Oh, somebody's commented on this thing with, Hey, this isn't true. But, a fact checker, I think, like I said, I'm just looking at the language here. There's so I think that might be where the danger lies and why so many people are concerned or expressing concern over this change is because once you.

Go down that hole, that rabbit hole, that there's less of an opportunity for, reality to exist on these platforms. and speaking of reality existing on these platforms, I think there's already a lot of problems, especially when it comes to like people believing what they see on these platforms. it's the, bunch of jokes about people used to say, don't believe everything on the internet.

And then now everybody's believing everything that they see on the internet. So

[00:13:28] Barry Kirby: what else has

[00:13:28] Nick Roome: been

[00:13:28] Barry Kirby: going on? it's, we were talking about in the pre show, which is, I think what triggered a lot of us getting to this is the growth of blue sky, as a, new platform. and is it going to go and bound off into new things, and, be a growth platform or is it just got, is it at a stumbling point?

It's going to fall off the edge. not necessarily going to want to repeat everything that we did the pre show if you want to see that go and see the early bit of recording but the fundamental bid is that it's kind it has got to that a precipice now where there's loads of people there was lots of motivation lots of enthusiasm people going over and do and getting on there i've done that myself i've moved all my accounts i've made accounts on blue sky for at least two for myself and for the podcast Don't really post that much stuff on there yet.

It's still, I guess for me, it still doesn't feel like the go to platform for all my news and stuff for the research we've done today. I've used it solely for the pretty much solely for the research that we've done today, which has been a new exercise, which has been great. but there are. Other platforms out there.

I do think that there's almost a plethora of platforms that are all trying to do the same or similar things now. And so when we talk about short form media, it isn't just TikTok that does that. But HiTable on TikTok, by the way, we're live streaming on that and for the first time ever.

[00:15:00] Nick Roome: Oh, yeah. So

[00:15:03] Barry Kirby: hi to you all. but it's the, TikTok have really pushed this short form media to, to, to something, but now everyone's doing it. No, you've got a YouTube reels. You've got, so YouTube shorts, you've got a Facebook reels, you've got Instagram, they're all doing the same principle things.

What does then, what, what does a platform like blue sky have to do, which has got all of the, original organic stuff that what Twitter had, cause he's made by the same, same originators. but if it doesn't do something special and different, in a way that works. Is it just going to fall over?

What do you think? are you taken by, by the blue sky storm or is it just passing you by?

[00:15:47] Nick Roome: I

mentioned it in the pre show. Like I'm trying to use it as the first primary source that I go to, but what's happened and especially I'll mention this as a segue. To the next part of this is that there's a creator that I like to follow on, X that has posted a huge breakdown of all the things that they, found at CES.

And I tried to follow them on blue sky. They don't post there. And that's to me, that's where I'm at in this weird space right now of trying to find the creators that I enjoy and want to follow and support, but trying not to support them on X and trying to go to Blue Sky, I think, there's, there's, a lot to work out still.

And so I think, ultimately, I'm at the in between right now, where I'm trying to adopt, but it's just not quite there.

[00:16:47] Barry Kirby: Anyway, that's a good segue into Hey, CES!

[00:16:50] Nick Roome: CES is this week!

[00:16:52] Barry Kirby: and, there is some can I just get some stuff out of the way first? Get, some stuff out of the way.

Yeah, you go. There's, the TVs are bigger. TVs are bigger. Thinner. More flexible. What, except for the see through TV, I thought that was pretty cool. And so you've actually got, the whole thing is just a see through, basically block of glasses to describe it really simply. that is got images thrown up on it.

but you can also see right through it as well, which on the one hand, so we were chatting in the office today around how cool that really is. And, the, technology behind, how we puts it, puts the images up there, but then we were like, What do you use it for?

[00:17:36] Nick Roome: Do you have, a link for that?

I want to put up a visual for folks who are watching. Yeah,

[00:17:41] Barry Kirby: let me find, I hope I could spell today, wasn't it?

Show notes.

are we going to throw up a YouTube link? Okay, I don't, let's just opening address. I'm going to put that into our show notes so you can just, cause you'll need to put it in as a, thing. yeah, you, seen it good. Yeah. so that I think is the one, one that we need. so yeah, so we, once you sort out that, the link, if we can, the idea being that you can see, so you put your hand behind it.

You can see your hand behind the TV. That's great. But what is the actual application of it though in real life? So you're not going to use it as a TV in your living room or your bedroom or stuff like that, because you, don't want to see the rest of your room when you're watching the latest greatest movie, or TV show.

So it's not that,

[00:18:42] Nick Roome: It's a heads up display. That's, what you could use it for as a heads up display.

[00:18:47] Barry Kirby: it is, but it's, it's, a big thing. it's in your, yeah,

[00:18:52] Nick Roome: this, particular piece of technology, here let's, we're on the CNET one here, this one here. Yeah,

[00:19:00] Barry Kirby: that's the one.

and it's pretty. It really is. it's pretty uncool. And you're right. for us, we decided that the cool application is things like, shopfronts, store windows, commercial applications. Oh yeah. We talked around, the ability to use it for, car windscreens, car, windows, but how distracting would that be?

But then having found that there is a, a company out there, and I can't remember who's done it now, which is really irritating, but one of the companies that has been highlighted as making the entire, Windscreen of a car. and it might be Sony one and camera, but the, the, the entire screen of a car, a completely interactive see through, screen, which will largely point out things like where you can go and eat whilst you're driving along.

they didn't hear the, the episodes that we did on irritating interfaces. But yeah, so again, that was one of these things that I thought was, I think it's quite cool, but I'm struggling on application.

[00:20:06] Nick Roome: Yeah, I think there, there is application, right? I think, for me, the, application here would be, like I said, heads up display in a vehicle, right?

If you, were to make an entire, Windscreen out of this technology. you could very much put a HUD on it, within the home. if you're thinking about like commercial use, I do struggle with a home, type of. application, although here's one that you might think of, so let's say there's like an open floor plan and you have a big screen, as like a display and you can put something in it like a, aquarium visual or something, right?

So it looks like it's actually fish swimming around that segments two parts of the home. It'd be very, It'd be for vanity purposes to have that in your home, but that might be one application of it. you could see through to the other side. I'm also wondering if you might be able to get some use out of this in the kitchen, where, you might want to look at instructions, on, like, instructions on a microwave, but also need to see what's inside or, something like that.

there was a piece of microwave technology that I saw that had a full screen and it had a video. feed that looks at you or looks at the food that you're cooking on the stovetop so that you can make videos for internet. Oh, for producing tips. Yeah.

[00:21:37] Barry Kirby: Yeah, no, I see that.

[00:21:39] Nick Roome: so the, that idea might be there of using the see through screen as a microwave cover.

So that way you can look at how to cook a, how to cook tutorial while you're, obviously right now we're at a cost prohibitive stage, but in the future, when this technology becomes more readily available, there might be more micro app applications like that, to, help with that type of thing.

I can also see an office overlay for a calendar or something where you might want to, you might want to, like in an office setting, like a receptionist might want to display their screen to somebody else. So that way they can still see them and interact with them, but they're looking at the stuff on the screen to make sure that, appointment details are correct or something to that effect.

So I can see applications for this. Although I think right now we're at a cost prohibitive stage. it looks cool. It does look cool. It looks very

[00:22:33] Barry Kirby: cool. The graphics that they've got of like the, splashing paint and stuff like that going through it, they've done, it looks good.

It's, bright. It's vivid. It's, it's all you could possibly want. So I think that, I think it's quite exciting. I think it's, it's again, it's for me, it almost encapsulates what CES is all about. Look at some, look at this crazy stuff. And in two, three years time, you'll see in, you'll see in a, It's the way that makes more sense.

[00:22:59] Nick Roome: Yeah. I think to me, CES like screams kind of innovation. It's Hey, look at this. Look at this battery. This is another one. I saw a battery powered TV that suction mounts to any surface in your home. and it's on a closed, so when the battery runs out, the TV, but it's like, what are the applications for that?

it's a battery powered TV that you can take with you while you're camping or something, but like you would never use that stuff in your home. but that technology might be actually very useful in the future. If you have, a handheld size, that's, something that displays videos and you can just keep in your, oh, wait.

[00:23:39] Barry Kirby: Yeah, you go. Yeah, exactly. So

[00:23:42] Nick Roome: what are we doing here? So I, but in the same, breath, I'm going to say that has large implications for like battery capacity and what types of things can we power by battery for long periods of time. Now we're at TVs. Great. We're at cars already too.

[00:23:59] Barry Kirby: what else? It's, so yeah, so I guess I kicked it off by saying TVs that, they're, bigger, they're better. And that's true that we now boasting much larger TVs, which I think, is great, but I think we've almost, it's a bit like, phone sizes, isn't it? We've got to, we got to peak useful phone, useful screen size.

Yes, we're going to get the exceptions that are super large TVs for larger applications, but for, domestic, for, for using the home, do we need TVs to go much bigger? Before

[00:24:33] Nick Roome: we move on, let's talk a little bit about more of some of the display stuff, because I think there is some interesting tech going on here.

Do you see these, micro led displays that from Samsung that are, basically like they, they stretch and, they're basically like bubble screens. They stretch. Yes.

[00:24:53] Barry Kirby: And again, cool. because anybody who's had to do anything to do with, display referencing or look at them technologies and early days of having to look at if you could put a screen somewhere and keeping it perfectly straight, not putting any tension on that screen whatsoever, because it'll crack if you're depending on your application, seeing things like that in a way that makes it so fluid.

And that's the only word I could use to describe it for me was the way that it's making that, what is it, what is typically a very rigid thing, just so almost organic in a way. I just think it looks really cool how to actually utilize it from a design perspective.

[00:25:40] Nick Roome: Yeah, it takes someone smarter than me to do that.

But here's the thing though. Here's the thing that like really just gets me excited about. Something like this, because you and I are scoffing at it. we're making jokes about it, but then there might be somebody else with a very specific domain and a very specific application that looks at the same thing and goes, this is it.

This is the thing that I've been looking for. That's going to solve the problems that I've been trying to. And

[00:26:06] Barry Kirby: that's what I love

[00:26:07] Nick Roome: about it.

[00:26:08] Barry Kirby: look at the, for me, a brilliant example of that sort of technology is that big globe ball thing in Las Vegas. Oh yeah. and it's a similar sort of thing.

What, why do you need a 360 degree display, both inside and outside, but it's brilliant. the stuff that the imaginative way that they're doing different types of, they, I saw a video of how they welcomed in the new year. and they would like this sort of robot type thing, smashing its way in to let in the new year into the thing.

And I was like, that's fantastic. That's it's a really good example of a sort of a technical, the amount of power taken to, to do all that display is incredible. but yeah, so this is along the same sort of thing, almost, as a, an extension of that. and I don't have it. I can't remember which laptop producer has made it, but an extending, laptop screen that, Oh, I

[00:27:06] Nick Roome: saw that.

Yeah. It's, got that flexible tech that I was telling you about the flexible TVs and it basically pushes up on the hinge to extend the screen. So that way you have more real estate vertically because it has a bent screen coming down. that pulls up really cool.

[00:27:24] Barry Kirby: Yeah. So it's, it turns it to about, I think it's a 20 inch high, 20 inch high, portrait screen.

fantastic. it's, the sort of thing that when you're going out with a laptop and you want to sit and do more. document editing or even that, mediating things like that. You need that extra space, but there's lots of, lots of devices at the moment where you can easily carry around a second screen and things like that.

But that just being busy unrolling and the screen a bit taller when you've got the space to do but it's still being transportable. I like that quite a lot. I think we'll see more of that sort of application as these flexible screens, become more, more durable.

[00:28:04] Nick Roome: Yeah, I'm trying to get a visual on that one because it's hard to explain, just how crazy this tech is, if you don't have, if you don't have a visual for it.

Yeah. Here's, the extended extender. There it is. Yeah. So it has a foldable screen down there. They're not foldable, but, flexible screen and you just push it up and it works like that. so pretty, cool stuff, man.

[00:28:29] Barry Kirby: Like I need any, but it's just. super sharp screen. I guess I would make it comparable to the people who now have flip phones with where the screen bends.

but you can after a while you can see where the creases and things like that. But the fact that is a, as they describe a rollable screen, it's a Livorno product for anybody who's searching for it. It just looks smooth. It just looks good. And that looks like something I, if I could have it tomorrow, I would use.

because it looks like the right sort of thing. big fan of that one. Yeah.

[00:29:03] Nick Roome: What else, we got on what other category you want to go to next? Barry,

[00:29:07] Barry Kirby: can we go a bit silly for a moment? So every year I think you always get somebody wanting to do the next smart fridge. fridge freezer. it's one of these things that completely, every time you sit there going, no, just, stop with the fridges.

Nobody, people just want a fridge to be cold. but Hisense have now come with their new version of a fridge. It's not got the, you can get a smart screen on the front of it. It's now a vacuum fridge. And so their idea about keeping stuff, fresh for longer is, when you close the door, it draws a vacuum inside the chambers.

and I'm like, Are we just trying to do more to solve a problem? Now? Unfortunately, the article, I tried to, I've linked an article in our notes, but it's in Spanish and I, so I wanted, I was hoping to get into the detail of it a bit. Okay. and the. When I've used the browser to do some translation, that's a bit questionable.

but it, as all, as seems to be the buzz all the way through CES this year, it's got AI built into it, of course. but it's got things like, dish designers, food recognition, meal planners, but this has all been part and parcel of Smart Fridges or what the ambition has been for Smart Fridges for eons.

and never. People never seem to use the, these sort of concepts in the way that designers want them to. But this idea about having the, the vacuum piece into it, I thought was really interesting.

[00:30:38] Nick Roome: I'm just thinking of the lawsuits. the moment a, small animal or a child climbs into one of those things, and it vacuum seals the, the living thing.

I, it's is, there AI built in to understand that in the fridge? cause when you vacuum things too, especially liquids, like you, you're pulling all the air out of it. And so is it gonna, how does it, I don't know. Yeah. Lots of questions. Lots of questions. I hadn't seen this one. So

[00:31:07] Barry Kirby: thank you for sharing that.

so let's stick with, domestic, the, that, the whole domestic product. Cause, robot vacuums.

[00:31:15] Nick Roome: Robot vacuums. Oh my gosh. Yeah. You see this one from, who is it? Robo rock. The one with the arm, the one with the arm. Oh my gosh.

[00:31:25] Barry Kirby: Which is, I thought it was, it just seems to me that somebody's, watched a, a few episodes of Robot Wars.

can we domesticate them? Can we tame Robot Wars robots, to come and be our servants around the home? but yes, again, to, try and paint the picture, it is just, anybody who's seen the, latest, the current trend of having the robots in your home, small disc like things with wheels on, churn around your home and your vacuums.

And I think now we've become quite affordable. the ones that are out there are fairly decent. The level of quality has hit such that it's not just a specialist thing. And so that, that's fine. So what is the next step? And that is to have a robot arm coming out the top of your, your robo vac that can then do the dusting at the same time, or can move objects out the way and things like that.

[00:32:17] Nick Roome: Yeah. They're, trying to do like these all in one approaches. So there's the, there's this robot, vacuum that we just talked about. the one that sort of does the, the extender armor come down and pick up a sock out of the way. But I w I wouldn't, there's. Questions I have about how strong is that grip strength?

What happens if it detects, something fragile, like how does it handle those types of things? What kind of decision making is going on in the, but, then there's also another company that's doing, another robot that is more, more geared to be that all in one solution. It's called, what is it?

SwitchBot.

[00:32:55] Barry Kirby: Oh, I haven't seen this. I've we got imagery.

[00:32:58] Nick Roome: Yeah, we got SwitchBot here. let me, let me pull up SwitchBot. Just give me one moment. and I will get a, a visual for you, but SwitchBot is a, multitasking household robot, that basically it looks like it's one of these all in one things it's, got vacuuming organization, air purification, monitoring for pets, delivering your food while you sit on a couch.

So here, let me, get the visual up so we can see it a moment.

[00:33:31] Barry Kirby: Here we go. We need like producers in the background to do some of this.

[00:33:33] Nick Roome: I know we, Hey, B roll, please. B roll. Come on. B roll. Oh yeah. So you can see it's made up of these different parts and components. And so you take, okay. it's, Got organizing. And it's, meant to be this all in one solution.

That's like modular in some ways and can, do some of these things that, that we're talking about. so not only picking stuff up, but Hey, look, we can also, we also have R2D2 from Return of the Jedi, delivering drinks and, cooling, patrolling, look at that, you got a camera on there and all the while it's vacuuming and Hey, you want to tell it presence, you've got it.

Air purifying. All right. So who's,

[00:34:17] Barry Kirby: so whose products is this one?

[00:34:20] Nick Roome: Oh, who is this? This is,

[00:34:23] Barry Kirby: cause that looks similar to us. That's circuit, a UFI, product, a UFI, where they've got a three in one robot vacuum, which they're claiming is the world's first detachable combo robot vacuum, which it can't be true if you've got this one here.

but it did win the 2025 best of innovation award. It's, oh, which is interesting. but again, not too dissimilar to what we've, just seen. It sort, it brings in, it can clean your home or be, or become a, a stick vacuum for you to use or a handheld vacuum when you want to use it. So it's not just not autonomous beast.

It is something that you can pick up and use at the same time. So it's, it, that's where the combo bit comes in for that. Interesting.

[00:35:10] Nick Roome: Yeah. At, this, time, I'm going to take just a quick pause. We've been talking a lot about the stuff that's interesting to us, but if you're watching live, or even if you're not watching live, leave a comment, wherever you're watching or listening, let us know what kind of crazy things you've seen coming out of CES, what you're excited for, what you think is just absolute dumb.

Like we, we would love to talk through what you're interested in. So just leave it in the comments and we'll bring them in. all okay. So we did robots. We did, fridges. We've done. displays, what else you got

[00:35:41] Barry Kirby: cars?

So two cars have launched themselves at CS. Honda, both Honda and Sony have produced electric cars, which they both bought out. So Honda's is ready to go and you can, you basically straight after the show, you can order one. and I think Sony is similar. but. And we've talked about this a lot.

It's just a bunch of touchscreens and wheels and motors. they look quite, they look space agey. They look quite cool that way, but fundamentally, they're just not enough. Switches. There's not, they're concept. T cool concept cars that look great in a, in, a bit of glitz or a future, movie, demolition man or something like that.

am I

[00:36:35] Nick Roome: hearing you correctly, Barry? Are you saying, damn it, give me, buttons and switches. I want my car to look like the inside of the millennium Falcon cockpit where you just have,

[00:36:44] Barry Kirby: Don't put words into my mouth. that's all right. And that's

[00:36:47] Nick Roome: what I want. That's what I want.

[00:36:49] Barry Kirby: No, I want that happy compromise.

I'm a big fan of using, as you, as we know, as we've discussed on many occasions, I do like a good touchscreen in the right application, but here, what we've just gone with is just a broad, massive screen. And in, in the same way that, that Tesla have done is that one screen will, solve everything.

They've done a similar thing and gone broad that way. And I don't see where the innovation is in that. I don't see where that they're not listening. They're not. you, we could do some really cool stuff with touchscreens with the different types of displays we were talking about earlier.

But also, where is the usability? Where is the, the consideration of safety? It feels like they Thank you. they're all coming in again and said, touchscreens is the way ahead. Oh, by the way, we've got to put some hardwides, which is just to appease the health and safety law. And then, whereas no, you could be cool with this.

You could provide some really sexy, really well designed and developed, interfaces that takes both the tactile nature of what you need and cool, sexy screens and make it one. And I think for me, both of them have, bitterly disappointed me. yeah.

[00:38:02] Nick Roome: what is a cool, a, cool thing that, that a company's doing here, BMW, they have this concept here called, oh, what is this?

This panorama Panoramic drive. Panoramic I drive. it's, basically a, heads up display, that, that goes in your car. And I think this to me is like one of those things that if this technology could be ported to other cars, existing cars, this could be really cool. but essentially they have, the touch screen.

but then it projects a HUD, a heads up display onto your windshield. it's, a cool technology. I think, it, it's not clear to me whether or not this is, built into their models, I would assume. So it looks like it could also be an add on feature to other models, does it only work with BMW products?

I don't know. Cause it could be, something that's really cool applied to a bunch of different with all the

[00:39:02] Barry Kirby: buttons and switches that you're asking for. Barry. Oh, yeah. what's interesting is the shape of that screen in the middle. I hate that. Tell me more. If you're going to have a, an offset geometric, shape, make it curved.

Cause it's, it just, that just implies a lot. For me, it, aesthetically, it's a lot more pleasing, than just some straight lines, or, but, or what looks like badly designed lines. Did you see,

[00:39:29] Nick Roome: I got it. I wish I could find it. There was a curved display that was like hugging the interior of a car that, Here, let me see, flexible displays, CES 2025 car.

I don't know, like this, you got to see this because it's so cool. Those flexible displays that we talked about earlier with the laptop, there's, there's, one application where it actually like molds to the display within the, Within the vehicle. And it looks really convincing because, you can see it like just completely morph into the, into the dash.

it's really neat.

[00:40:12] Barry Kirby: It's, again, things like that, I think, are really cool. But then from. our perspective as designers, when we come to do the design of the user interface, specifying that sort of thing is, going to be challenging. which is a challenge. Yeah. I want to be a part of, I want to play with the play with that, that technology.

and let's bring it on. But, yeah, I can see the ability to try and spec that out for the developers, in the way that you want is, going to make our job, that little bit more interesting and harder to do.

[00:40:56] Nick Roome: Yeah. But an interesting challenge because I wonder if it's still on next.

Why? And so you, design it in 2d space, understanding where those curvatures are in a 3d, that's all super cool. you talked about this in the pre show since we're taught. Do you, want to talk about the flying vehicle that you had mentioned?

[00:41:22] Barry Kirby: Yeah, so not only have we now got flying cars, we've got flying motorcycles, which I think is just, is just epic.

So the Richter Skyrider X1, the name that just rolls off the tongue, It's the world's first flying electric motorcycle. It's going to cost you the best part of 60, 000. So if you've got 60 grand sitting around, then, it will give you a range of about 40 minutes, 40 minutes flight. So at a speed of around 60, 60 miles an hour, It's got planning, it's got weather adaptability, it's got, it looks just like a motorbike that is an enclosed motorbike with, a UAV quadcopter.

arrangement stuck on the top of it in a very sleek way. so yeah, that, I think that could be quite exciting. I think this whole thing about where flying vehicles are now going to get us and the, evolution of the quad and more drone and the controllability that gives you is just going to take us somewhere in the next couple of years that I think is going to be quite incredible.

I think the way that we look after. This type of technology, because it's small. So how do we control? Yeah. How do we, is it a drone? Is yeah. Is it, a drone? Is it, a plane? Is it an aircraft?

[00:42:54] Nick Roome: Yeah.

[00:42:55] Barry Kirby: Is it Superman? all that type of stuff. And we are going to have to, because technology is going to go there.

Technology and law is going to, cause somebody's going to have an accident, or an incident or something that's going to force this to be looked at by law. but go through the court system and it's going to really force us to think about how do we manage airspace, particularly that zero to 250 meter or 500 meter space, where we've got micro drones, because that's the other bit that we're, we can come on to is another bit in CS was, the, was more exploitation of micro drones, where you can have them following you and doing but we'll come on to that.

This is going to be all about how do we, if you're wanting to have one of these motorcycles or a flying car or something like that for you to navigate to work or, do you commute or go and visit relatives or just nip up the road, get going, do your shopping? How do car parks work?

How does airspace work? How do you de conflict? How do you, ask permissions to go and do things? Do you need to ask permissions? Is it just going to be the new wild west? I'm quite excited by this. I think it's going to be good fun.

[00:44:07] Nick Roome: Yeah. You're excited until somebody falls under your house. after as long as they're insured.

Yeah. And then how is that going to be handled? isn't insurance going to be just, yeah. Okay.

[00:44:20] Barry Kirby: but I w I, I do wonder whether it's, whether we're at the same point now of when, the first motor cars. started hitting the roads because obviously when they started doing that going from, horses and things like that to faster vehicles, which then accelerated, forgive the pun, and road safety had to catch up.

And it's what we're doing now that autonomous vehicles and now, and we having to catch up with road safety to make that happen. and the likes of the companies who are developing them are forcing us to think about it, in a way that's, quick. And if we don't catch up with the thinking, then they're just going to go on ahead anyway.

That's going to be the same with this. That's going to be the same with these type of technologies that it's becoming more achievable, easily. And then you're going to get people building their own. And that's, we're just going to force all sorts of, things to happen.

[00:45:13] Nick Roome: Yeah, I, think so. I'm, taking a look at some of the other stuff that came out of this.

are there any other highlights for you, Barry, that you can think of here before we, start to wind down on the tail end of the show? So

[00:45:28] Barry Kirby: the glasses seem to be quite popular. So there's a few different, glasses in play. one is, by a company called venture and there, I, was quite taken by these for just for simplicity.

And the idea is that they are just a pair of glasses and you swipe backwards and forwards on them to either increase or decrease the polarity. So the way, so your, ability to see through them, to, so the, polarization of them and. And on the one hand, we have that automatically anyway, because you have the glasses that when you walk outside, automatically polar, polarizer.

And when they, you walk inside, they go clear. And this is just allows you the way they're selling. This is, this just allows you a lot more control. it's not necessarily new technology. You can have it in, office walls already. So glass walls, you can press a button and they, go, they go opaque.

but they're now in glasses. That was one thing. And then there's been a few more where the jumped on the, basically the next evolution of Google glass, where you've got monochrome and color displays doing things. And the ones that scared me most, I say scared, but, and I just say excite, excite you.

unnerve me maybe, are the ones that you can wear and they've got all the recognition on them and we'll be doing the, the automatic translate language translation for you. and all that sort of stuff. So that means on the one hand, that automatic translation is brilliant. I think it's a really good idea.

because, cause we are, the globe is a much smaller place. Now somebody is currently trying to learn, and failing to learn Japanese. I think just having that sort of thing to be able to do it is great. But we've got we've we then taking the issues that we've already talked about quite a lot on, smart speakers and smart homes.

We're gonna be taking all them issues of safety security, around with us all the time. yeah, clearly glasses are, an interesting topic about how much technology we throw into them. Yeah. Have you got any, last things that you want to throw up?

[00:47:45] Nick Roome: Yeah, I think there's, I can do a rapid fire of, day three.

So today we're recording on day three. There's still another day to go. So there might be some more announcements that we're missing here. But I think one of the other biggest themes from this year's conference is to nobody's surprise AI. and, I think they're, using some A. I. in some interesting applications, especially when it comes to, they're trying to put A.

I. in everything, right? but beyond that, how they're using it, especially in like these virtual environments, which is really near and dear to my heart, because virtual environments mean video games. And so there's a lot of, new sort of ways in which they are using, AI to, to run simulations on characters in video games or to map, character voices to their faces.

so that way there's less animation cost involved with something like that, especially when it comes to localization, there's other cool things that are going on. how to, have a co playable character, which, you know, as far as I understand, it's like someone that you can switch to, but has their own autonomy when you're not on them.

so that's, an interesting application. There's another one here that came out of, Of CES that's it's called Runner H and it's an AI agent that they are, advertising here. And basically, if you're unfamiliar with what an AI agent is, it will take a goal of yours and attempt to do that goal.

one of the examples that they use is I'll be at CES in 2025, book me a room. in Las Vegas search for anything nearby. And so it'll communicate with you what it's doing at every step of the way, but it'll go out on its own and it'll go and look up its own websites. It's going to take control of your computer.

It's going to click on the buttons and do everything for you. and it'll pause at multiple steps to get user confirmation to say, Hey, this is what I'm about to do. I'm about to book you a hotel room here. Is that cool with you? Cool. they've done everything for you what kind of events do you want?

Choose one of the three, Hey, I got, a show here. and then I'll book me a conference room and then it'll look through all the conference rooms and book it so like you can actually set it off to do tasks is essentially what an AI agent does and so I think this is an interesting, an interesting.

Thing, especially when it comes to, trust in a system, because there's going to be some crazy things that happen when an agent, starts being in control of the things that you're looking at. I am going to look through this day three thread to see if there's anything else in here that we haven't already covered.

It looks like some of this stuff is old, but, Oh, measures hormones quickly using saliva. There's a lot of health tech too. there's a new, full body scale and mirror that, that. communicate what your vitals are and, your, breakdown of your body, from why things, which is, cool.

AI wearable for productivity. That's not going to do anything.

[00:50:57] Barry Kirby: sorry. I'll jump in though. It seems to have been a few, which I meant to mention, robots and companions. So this seems to be quite a, push on, having your robot companions that can send you around hotels and act as concierge and things like that.

But they do seem to be a bit like what Google glass used to be. Whereas, everyone's got one. No one knows what to do with it. again, I thought it was interesting. I just thought I'd throw that.

[00:51:26] Nick Roome: AI companions come in all shapes and sizes. I mentioned this in the pre show they're starting to, market these full Humanoid, AI companions that, that can, that, that look very much like humans and there even are, they're, they are, advertising them as they can be your friend or your girlfriend and they come in all shapes and sizes, literally there's another company, with, with a robot out here that looks like Romy.

And if you ever played like Sonic and know what the chows are, they're like the little like teardrop shaped, robots with eyes on them and they just, they're cute. They're cute. And they're supposed to be a friend where it helps you when you feel alone, worried, or sad. They'll talk you through some of those things.

So literally all shapes and sizes that, that are coming out of here, in terms of AI companionship, more fitness, affordable, watches, AI, blah, blah, blah. and, Oh, look at this and AI bassinet.

[00:52:29] Barry Kirby: cool. Yes. The, the baby companions and, all that sort of stuff. I think there's, yes, there's definitely a lot

[00:52:38] Nick Roome: to, to, yeah, I think, I think there's too many sources to thank for this one, but I'll just name a few here, especially with, with respect to, To finding and sourcing these.

who do we have here? Rowan Chung. And, we got some stories from USA Today. I'm trying to make sure that we source all these things. Who else was the other one that was really a Hassan tour. so thank you all to you all. And so many others that, that helped us put this show together, from the coverage CES.

2025. and really if you, have anything from CES 2025 that you want to post about, please leave them in the comments. We'll be happy to readdress them next time we're on the show. we're going to take just a quick break and, I think then we'll do one more thing and, then, we'll wrap up the show.

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[00:55:15] Nick Roome: Yes, truly huge. Thank you to all of you. Patrons. you are truly keeping us going. and I promise we'll have some exciting things to announce a little bit down the line, for patrons. Okay. With that, we've eaten up our time for the, it came from segment, which is where we usually talk about things going on from around the human factors community.

But I did want to check in with you, Barry, because it has been a good minute since you and I. Had a one more thing. So I'd love to know what's going on in your life. what's your one more thing this week?

[00:55:48] Barry Kirby: So I'm really trying to look into 2025. I'm trying to draw a line of 2024 and therefore come and do new and fun things.

Cause I didn't do very much of that last year. So this year is going to be about looking at. new hobbies and new ideas. And as a, my first bit into that, Amanda, my wife bought me a pottery lesson. so I'm going to learn, going to organize and learn how to do some pottery and some of the, I'm really looking forward to it because it's got nothing to do with the day job, though.

I'm already thinking about ergonomic cups and, and things like that. but I'm looking forward to doing something That will just enable me to do different things. So I think that's going to be my theme for 25. And I'm looking forward to making that work. you mentioned

[00:56:36] Nick Roome: pottery. I am going to require an image of Amanda holding you like that scene in ghost.

[00:56:43] Barry Kirby: I shall put that request. It may or may not work. And it may or

[00:56:49] Nick Roome: may not be.

[00:56:50] Barry Kirby: Okay.

[00:56:52] Nick Roome: I figured I'd put in the ask. All right. so for me, I have a lot of things I think that are on my mind. yeah, you mentioned it. 2024 is behind us. 2025 is before us. And I think there's a lot of changes that, that, I'm looking to make this year.

One of which is something a lot of folks tend to try to do around this time is get back in shape. And so one of those things is, the, my one more thing this week is a really interesting piece of gem equipment that I found and have ordered and and basically it's hard to describe how this works, but if you have like dumbbells, this is a cross bar, a, Barbell, with clamps on either end that attached to those dumbbells that you can then turn that bar into a barbell, and so you can, bench press with it, dad, left with it, all that stuff.

And what really is interesting about this is if you have some of those adjustable dead, dumbbells from like a Bowflex or something, which I do, You can combine them in very interesting ways. So you can put the barbell down and then adjust the weights on it and then bring it back up and it's, you don't have to adjust the barbell or the, yeah, you don't have to adjust the dumbbell on them at each time.

It's just, you're adjusting the weight on the barbell. So it's really cool, really interesting how it works. There's also a kettlebell extension too, that you can, attach to the adjustable dumbbell. Dumbbells. and if all this is confusing, just imagine like dumbbells that you hold in your hands.

Okay. And those are adjustable, meaning the weights are adjustable. So you can change them from five to 10 to 15 pounds. and then you, put those on the ends of this barbell that you can then. So it's really cool. It's changed, how much you can do. So now when I deadlift, I no longer have to hold the two, The two dumbbells next to me, I can just hold the barbell cooling it up.

It's pretty cool. Pretty cool stuff.

[00:59:03] Barry Kirby: So that, that, so by the end or by mid year, we're going to be doing, podcast topless to, to show off the, new body with the new bells.

[00:59:12] Nick Roome: No promises, but that's the hope. That's what we're shooting for. All right. That's one way of getting the listenership up.

There we go. Yeah, we got to do it that way. All right. that's it for today, everyone. If you liked this episode and enjoy some of the discussion around CES, I'll encourage y'all to go listen to some of our other CES episodes. Just see how tech has changed over the years. What goofy things were we talking about back in 2020 that are, either now obsolete or a permanent part of our life.

comment wherever you're listening with what you think of all the stories this week, or what you found most interesting from CES 2025. for more in depth discussion, you can always join us on our Discord community. You can visit our official website, sign up for our newsletter, stay up to date with all the latest Human Factors news.

If you like what you hear, you want to support what we're doing over here. There's a couple things you can do one, wherever you're at right now, give it a subscribe, or leave us a five star review wherever you're watching, listening, consuming the thing that we're doing right now. Tell your friends about us.

that's the second thing you can do word of mouth really helps us grow and help other people find the show. And three, if you're financially able, I know everyone's finances are different. And so if you're financially able and want to support us monetarily, you can absolutely do that over on Patreon.

we'll, take your money, but, you don't have to do that. As always links to all of our socials and our website are in the description of this episode. And I thank Mr. Barry Kirby for being on the show today. Where can our listeners go and find you if they want to talk about humanoid robot companions?

[01:00:37] Barry Kirby: if you want to come and chat with me on social media, I'm now in on blue sky. So I'm, at a buzz, Kirby dot B sky dot social. you can also find me on Facebook and other platforms like that. So feel free to come and get in touch. And, if you want to hear interviews and what we're going to do with 2025, then come and find me, interviewing people at the 12 or two human factors podcast, 12 or two podcast.

com.

[01:01:05] Nick Roome: As for me, I've been your host, Nick Rome. You can find me all over social media at Nick underscore Rome, and I'm also in our discord. Thanks again for tuning into human factors cast. Be sure to stay around for the post show. If you're watching the watching live until next time.

It Depends!