E233 - Does Watching at 2X Speed Impact Learning?

Welcome to human factors yeah your weekly podcast for human factors psychology and design. Hello everybody welcome back to another episode of human factors cast this is episode 200 33 we're recording this live on 1/27/2022 I'm host Nick Rome I'm joined today by Mister berry Kirby Hey there great to be here it is great to be here we are fairly low energy tonight but we will hopefully bump that energy up through the roof as we talk about the topic tonight because it's actually really interesting got a great show for you tonight will actually be talking about learning at twice the speed some of the talk really slowly so that way if you are listening to this at twice the speed afterwards my words and berries words are much clearer for you to listen to and later we're gonna be answering some questions from the community about our happiness in the field of human factors how we organize our interview data and we'll talk about the jump from a junior role to a mid level role but first we have a quick programming note here a community update for you all once again I'm gonna plug our human factors cast digital media lab. We have a lab where we are experimenting with different media for digital outputs so what that means is we are experimenting with blog posts podcasts. Different ways to interact with the human factors community online if this excites you if you have ideas. These reach out to us we are always looking for more people to join this lab and we've kicked off 2022 with a couple really interesting work thread so stay tuned for that but we know why you're here you're here for human factors news so let's go ahead and get into it. That's right this is the part of the part of the show all about human factors news very what is our news story this week so this week we talk about how much do students learn when they double the speed of that plus videos through recorded lectures to become a routine part of course instruction during the code 19 on that make in college students often try to pack more learning into a shorter span I watch these recordings it double lead normal speed or even faster. What does comprehension suffer as a result according to a new UCLA study the answer is surprisingly no up to a point the study was shown the study has shown that students retain information quite well when watching lectures it up to twice the actual speed once you exceed the speed things then got a bit blurry so the structure you speeding up videos may not be effective with especially complex or difficult course material the region the researchers noted so Nick are you a double speed consumer or you were single truck person I am a double speed consumer I listen to everything if I can at a higher speed and this is largely because I value my time and when I consume these things I want to consume a lot of it and so when I listen to podcasts it's at twice the speed or sometimes slightly higher it really depends on the host of the podcast. We can we will talk about our experiences but yes I am me more than one times speed person for everything berry are you a more than one time speed person though I'm not well I'm a I'm a I'm a single speed many because I find that there's that there's a level of deaths that you lose I'm I want to get engaged with the with the host with being with them and and what is it Nathaniel's is and things like that that's as. The level of richness that I think you lose when you speak of and for the better I just think it's seldom that we had of I just don't I just think that that the sound just as a work book for me something about this article as well as that you'll you'll you'll I also work with the but what about the other side of the equation the electors all the people making that sort of stuff if you if you're listening to they stood twice the speed you know you only get half as much of those it is is that quality quality for you I don't know I'm so yeah I'd I'd I don't know I think I'm different you tried that much in terms of getting stuff in so it may be to be any to experiment with to see whether it works but if we if we pay this back this is actually a thing can you actually live in this quickly how to do it can you give some insights around run the leading Webbie yes so I want to I want to quickly jump on one of your points really quick here so I think you mentioned the medium and and sort of what the I guess creator thinks of people enjoying their content at twice the speed for something like a podcast we put this on a every week I don't care if people listen to this at at 2 times the speed in fact I encourage it because we sit here for an hour and if you can get that done in half an hour then you are getting our full conversation about today's latest news. In in a half an hour and and you know that's your time for something like. Where where maybe you're not learning or you are just enjoying something so like a television show or movie that I can see being. I'm a little bit more strict with yes I want people to watch this at at one time the speed because in instances where there's an awkward pause or tension between characters I can see that. Playing differently when it's not in real time and so if it's a piece of art I feel like you are then. I'm getting outside that 2 times speed but yes we are talking about learning specifically with this so let's use you learning. I was kind of a basis right and there's some research on E. learning and we're talking about you learning here because in this study we're we're talking about learning at twice the speed and you can't really do that in a controlled way other than looking at videos and playing them back at different speeds so let's get into it there's a couple different I guess take aways with E. learning maybe we talk about those a kind of a high level here generally I think E. learning as a whole is more effective than many people realize and I think as were starting to. M. experimental with some of these hybrids situations where you have students at school in the classroom and E. learning and they're kind of switching off. There can be you know obviously I guess there's no real substitute for being in person hands on learning in the classroom environment I think that we can all agree that that is probably the most effective although I'd like to talk to a researcher on this. Mmhm but we're we're talking about you learning and it can still be effective when done correctly right yeah there's some research that suggests that. When you are using video instead of the usual form of teaching you might get a slight bump in grade but nothing significant there and it all depends on how people learn to write. If they are kind of doing a video lesson in addition to an existing class you have a greater impact almost a full letter grade and then when you have. It's sort of when video learning outperformed in person learning. There's kind of larger implications here about. Flipped learning or remote learning and in person lectures so there's there's still some inconclusive evidence about that. But I think generally it is it is effective and it might be more effective than people realize you talk a little bit about why it is effective yeah I mean it's interesting because I did some Lexus won't recently and I didn't do the same because I think we might mention previous episode I did the same calls twice at the one in person and then one remote I news interesting that the you know the the ability to engage people in person on the on the topic was was easier than doing that online but then when speaking with electricity he was very much in favor of some of them that some of the things that they just know that they have to get some of the facts on that it's easy to do and more consistent to do 5 video then that it was him standing up to give them extra time and time and time again because he was you know affected by. Also things if he was on about day that the you know his own energy didn't go into the into the into the lead in the same way so but in terms of wives video alerting effective. As long as you go with the lower end of that they can control the learning material they can work at the pace that they that they want to they can if they want to miss something or they don't get something to go back to refresh it all the can as we talked about but maybe conceiving faster than than anybody else and also we did there is research to suggest that humans are hard wired to learn best when they're looking to both to treat and visual information to be able to correlate them together. I'm. They raise the question around 10 video letting be effective for teaching skills as well as facts or skills of the we we talk about. Muscle memory and things like that Sir the but they do think that the the video learning is effective for teaching more complex skills and behaviors I'm doing about this next part because I have no idea how to control students yet we'll get to that in just a minute I will I want to break this point down a little bit I have you used you learning to sort of. I guess learn a skill. Like what do you do video to like like for woodworking or something yeah I'm I'm kind of I need to but I don't know whether it's I'll try to think of this because IT I've come at the moment said you consume a lot of. Things unlike forging which I'm done yet but the the wood working on this the German lucky YouTube channel and I watch a lot of his stuff around half because he's very good at teaching I think explaining how he does stuff I was trying to just what was we told what this is what what how is that I'm I'm just picking up the general things as an instructional the in video almost but what he's done in the steps he's taking over me taking on board the skills he's doing about how we do stuff and I'm not entirely sure because I don't get to go and do exactly the sort of things that he's done I only sort of June approximation of that but maybe that's enough I don't know what what do you think of you have you taken on board any sort of a audio visual materials into for skills rather than behavior rather than just just on the jukebox. Yeah and I think you have a very good point here what when talking about skills versus facts and where is the lead because I think for me you know I've I've learned. Techniques from these YouTube videos or or online courses or anything and I've learned like coding from these and that's a skill and so I I feel that in some cases. Knowing the technique or learning the technique is learning the skill where you know there there are fact based things to write like. Like let's just take a is a very obscure example but your worm salt do you know your warm salt won't go unless you oil it and that you need to oil it now how to oil it that is a procedure that you need to perform on that warm saw when Dr saw and so you need to you know kind of take out the pieces and parts in a certain order and that is a skill so you you look at the technique and then but the fact that you need to do it is the fact part of it I don't know that's that's one example there are other examples so. You know there's there's somebody who might teach counseling and this is a first hand account from one of the sources we have here. It's really hard to demonstrate proper counseling in a lecture because you can't bring a client to do that in front of a group of 400 students but if you do and if you do role play that seems kind of contrived but when this person has created videos of counseling sessions that can be much more real they can be practiced they can really focus on what's that that. A teacher is is trying to do you can much more easily stop them soar to annotate the video and live in the moment or not live if we're talking about a video playback you can annotate it. And and really sort of note some of these important parts of the skill and say Hey did you notice here how I use this type of question and so so I think that type of learning for these complex. Skills can be effective okay. So just to. The counter comfort food almost as soon as that so recently I've as I've so much before I go into American football and the only actual sport I know what's on the rams are in the in the heart of old very exciting. I've been trying to work out how they played because of my work some of the videos on it I'm still not convinced I could go and be the next quarterback old the next board level just by watching the videos because it's clean your lotus skill enough to get you up to that level and they make it look easy but again maybe that's not because it's not instructional videos such I don't know its I think there is something that it's around you being able to mimic what you see when you're watching the video so counseling you can get yourself into the zone all yes you can see it repeats it do it we feel watching something that you can't necessarily repeat I is that a good instructional video for live that quite a long time now just it's because it's interesting do you want to pick up a pick up another one. Yeah you you mentioned the K. 12 students I'm gonna talk about this briefly so here in the states we call it K. 12 and this is just like. I I guess primary school it's it's some you know from kindergarten to twelfth grade okay children from the age of 4 or 5 all the way up to the age of 18. Mmhm and they are learning their skills and so there's there's not really evidence that would support either way that this would be. Detrimental I guess or or it wouldn't be. Not that sorry the E. learning would not be applicable to these groups. And so I guess there's there's still more research that needs to be done it's just a point that we want to talk about here especially as we're talking about E. learning and at least in this context as college students when the article that we're talking about today but I do want to mention the K. 12 thing. D. A. do you wanna talk about some of the limitations because I feel like you are pretty heavy on the limitations and I think you want to become a part of the limitation I think it's just I think I have a thorough understanding of the of the value of of video and sometimes we can still see is a city what came out of the pandemic is we think it's going to solve everything but none of the route I think it's used in the right place it's a really really good thing so. The thing that we don't know is just is how that works I will work in practice and and how it works I guess around the world so if you look at what we've talked about equality of opportunity and things like that in the past what about places that don't have good access to internet good ask access to you know do you do you need a certain level of technology to make sure that you can access to access this type stuff the ticket if we gonna change the speed ratios of it because you can't really do that with a a bog standard the VHS or Betamax video play it's you're you're looking at a digital you agree you should get over that sort of thing to be able to do that. And then the education system this year is seeing really so many learners don't have the privilege of high speed internet and because you know me with you've got multi students families as well because so he got is not good ones to try to consume a big video data it's multiple. Siblings within that within the same home maybe parents try to work as well that you we don't necessarily have the full speed of internet that we can make that work with so I do this no it's not a one size fits all the moments we can get to everyone can get everywhere we can get everybody. The study starting I think the we can't argue with the fact that a lot of a lot of students and a lot of M. educational organizations really stepped up to the plate when you get when the pandemic hits generated all full lots of video material which saved a lot of children's education. What was the one that would divide anything so I I think that it's it's we we still in a very much a learning time nothing connotes a pandemic they will see that balance old. The hybrid learning a mood will we will find more date mode more real data real real life experiences about let's do about how educators respond. This research yes so there's some. I guess you know there there's. I guess from from the perspective of educators right that there's certain things that you can take certain measures that you can take to kind of up your game right so as an educator you can sort of improve the quality of your videos that you are. Start making for your classes or your YouTube videos or whatever you're doing right so I think in terms of this there's there's some skills that you can learn like editing. And sort of. Making sure that the content there is focused and. I guess entertaining in a way so that way people retain it better. There's also marginal upgrades that you can make select better recording equipment high quality camera teleprompter these types of things. And you know in one case there's there's an educator that's sort of embracing a flipped classroom aides you know there's. They gonna write that my classes no longer have anything that looks like a lecture he says the classes are all students doing things students hands on making mistakes getting feedback trying the things they've just seen online and so very much relying on a community or I guess if this educator is putting them together themselves sort of. Providing resources and having them test those skills in a real environment I think. That's a really really important notice that when you're trying to teach skills you still have to practice them but at least you know the techniques and I think that is really important thing to note you have 2 different types of of. Class progression type you want talk about those yeah just really briefly I think the only relates to kind of what the the don't you just making because we remember that is if we were trying to push people forward do they work together as a group or do they work together on their own so this in ages of educational terms is this idea of very well must be fixed time all which really means that you could fix time at the computer time to get to cross a certain amount of content on the group all the individuals will take on a certain amount of knowledge so they did the very that the mastery will change a little bit to a minimum standard some will be come back to the notice. All but did the main thing around that is that the the time that's fixed so you'll you'll with full term 2 times 3 times whatever all you the flip side of that is actually you can work on your own and we will aim to get to a certain level of mastery so a fixed mastery and he was staying in that course was Lloyd little or as long as it takes for you to do that and so that's 6 must read valuable time what we talk about with the videos I think really lends itself to fix must do must be valuable time because you are in complete control of the speed and pace of what you're doing you can. Will through videos really quickly all university only struggle to see how you can do that in more of a group session how do you get the value will of of group working of that sort of engagement. I think there's a there's a party even uses preparation you can use it that's something but it's if you go too far along to the video side of things that do you lose but collaborative side of things so again it goes back to how to get that balance right. What are your experiences with we were told we debate about it already but the how have you consumed at double speed what what's all things does not lend itself to yeah good good good. Getting back on track we talked a lot about. Sort of E. learning and I think that was a good primer because let's get back to the original article about that the 2 times the speed is effective is it not and yes let's let's talk about our experiences with 2 times before we get into that so for me I listen to podcasts at twice the speed sometimes higher I listen to YouTube at twice the speed sometimes I guess it's it's hard to quantify when I make that decision I think it's more. When I'm looking for information I do it twice the speed when I am sort of watching a tutorial it might be so in my eye even slow down depending on how complex the task is I think the ability to control the speed is a huge boom though I think that's that's a great thing to have. I haven't done any online conferences or any sorry I am online classes with this but I have done things like conferences and that's also something where I will go back and watch it twice the speed it is information that I am taking in and there's no life component on a pre recorded thing and so I'll I'll go back and watch the twice the speed doesn't bother me. You have a couple examples here to do you want to talk about what you use to time speed for if anything. Well yes are you also using examples of things I don't so again so because I do it single speed because I think goes back to what you said it was right the beginning is is that I don't consider them it is not just knowledge of the art form and I think there's there's a level of that type of thing so when things are going to the moment is is led Welsh and I couldn't do that twice speed even if I won I can barely do it single speed both the ability to control stuff is really useful because again your judgment about slowing things down be able to control that something in German goes is but it's been really really useful the other bit also played around with it was how do we do how do you deal with things on on hybrid so I'm going to be going to do a lecture in a couple weeks. To the engineering community that they've just dropped on me that it's it's going to be a hybrid so I'm going to start doing the live a live stream but also there's gonna be a bit people in the room as well so that's always gonna be quite hard for them because for the people he what would want to conceive it faster than the judge will be able to because we have to keep. Mmhm we have to keep the date that the speed the same because it's because I'm also sending it live to a live audience and I'll be interesting you thought about whether we should be able to live in with the whole hybrids to foot the tolo but should we be doing it twice all you have to do it live and then release it you're playing yeah I mean for me I like look my ideal scenario since there are zoom calls that are recorded all the time now is. Yeah let's assume call happen unless you need to be there for input and then you watch it afterwards right like that is kind of how I operate for certain calls right there's there's calls right need to necessarily be involved with the discussion. But I am I want to be aware of that and so I'll watch those after the fact at twice the speed and that saves me time because I'm still consuming the whole thing I have time for other things now. I'd have to sit through the whole thing live in terms of you know your example I think for the people you know if it is recorded than the people who want to be there virtually just listen to it afterwards at twice the speed but that's my thoughts on it now let's get back to this article here I thought maybe we could glance over some of the studies how they did this exactly and kind of what the difference is between them so I'll start us off here this is this is done at UCLA so kind of a. Gen general college student population right. It basically D. 85 percent of UCLA students. Surveyed reported they speed watch lecture videos and so the researchers kind of engage them on a series of experiments to see how these fast speeds in Gare sort of affected learning and knowledge retention in the first experiment they kind of looked at 2 under 31 undergrads into 4 groups they have them watch 2 videos that were 13 to 15 minute lectures one of the Roman Empire another on real estate appraisals. 11 group watched at normal speed 1 at 1.5 times the speed 1 at double speed and 1 at 2.5 times the speed. And they were instructed not to pause the videos or take any notes. So already it's kind of an artificial environment that's that's kind of one of my hobbies are rations so after these viewings they kind of look to the they looked a comprehension test to see how much they understood from them. 20 multiple choice true or false questions normal speed group averaged about 268 correct answers out of 40 double time group scored about 25 so it's about it's about the same as the 1.5 speed group. And then. And then for the 2.5 speed group they didn't do well they did 22 questions correctly on average so. I guess the significant differences anything above 2. Is where it starts to decline. Do you want. I do wanna talk about this next part here yeah so the interesting bit about that was then a week later the same groups were given different tests related to the 2 videos to assess what they retained so then then almost B. group averaged 24 out of 41.5 speed and a double speed group averaged 21 and the 2.5 speed students averaged 20 so surprisingly video speed we can see Assad actually little effect on both immediate delay comprehension when Kelowna's exceeded twice the normal speed so. That's quite an interesting piece of I mean actually overall will babysit a theme of the dimension is actually still looking very high schools. Anyway how to forge the still only getting around half of them just over half of them correct Sir maybe that's a choice. To subject the Roman Empire and real estate appraisals yeah maybe maybe if it was the. Star Wars trilogy might be might be different I'm. But they also look to a few of the bits as well added with the one of quickly mention the the the bits of they looked up yes so they they looked at some other combinations I guess of speed watching a normal speed viewing of these 2 videos. Again I just wanna mention that none of these are being compared to in person that's not what we're looking at here we're looking at just whether or not online learning can be affected by this and so I'd imagine in person you might see a slight bump of those answers that's just isn't so so they looked at sort of the the. Twice at double speed once at normal speed. So they kind of had one group of students watch the videos at double speed twice in succession and another watch them just once at normal speed. And both groups answered about 25 out of 40. So there is no difference watching it twice at 210 speed or once at normal speed you're getting the same content twice at 2 times the speed which would indicate that maybe there is you know some additional information that's being taken in there. There's another experiment that they did where they watch the videos once at normal speed while another view them and nationally at double speed then a week later at double speed again and then when tested a week after that the first group that watch the videos. I'm. And shortly after that the second group viewed those videos a second time the speed watchers perform better averaging 24 out of 40 versus 22 the one time it's normal group so I again I don't think that's a significant difference there but still interesting to note that the the double speed is performing well no talk about the switching speeds portion of the study so they agreed to watch the videos of the normal speed then a double speed scold slightly better immediately after the viewings in a group that works at double speed and then almost paid so 26 was the 20 full so no 63 the significant but interesting when you 2 groups for the same view procedure will quit a week after watching they both school 25 so actually the longer term attention was exactly the same I am so when we look these people generally speak at a rate of 150 words a minute previous research has shown the comprehension begins to decline a speech approaches double speed around 2 to 25 words a minute so yeah I mean I guess maybe some of some of the season so it's not surprising when you look at that the doctor will factor in of itself. Yeah what one can last no for me over here the so this is actually a note from the researchers here they said they were surprised and impressed that students could learn and retain this knowledge at faster speeds and the kind of set the quote here college students can save time and learn more efficient efficiently by watching pre recorded lectures at faster speeds if they use the time save for additional studying that's the key here is that you are saving time but you should use that to bolster what you've learned right. I'm. But they shouldn't exceed double the normal splay Backstreet. Their study didn't reveal significant drawbacks to watching lecture videos at up to double the normal speed but they caution against kind of using this strategy to simply save time. Students can enhance their learning if they spend the time saved on activities such as reviewing flash cards or taking practice tests so again it's kind of how you spend your time so you you kind of get the content and then you use that remaining time that you would have had to bolster it. Any final thoughts on this berry before we move on yeah I guess final thought for me really is it will be interesting to know just how. And but the fatiguing this is safe again just going on a bit about around time if you if you consumed it at twice the speed of the vote I would think that your mentally work and work harder to comprehend what's going on do you need to to use the extra time to recover from that to be interesting to look to do I guess mental workload analysis on on that as a as an outcome but fundamentally yeah if if we can identify that does Bates the reedy good full full video loading and get that information across then let's make the most of technology I'm in. You have you been listening to this at twice the speed let us know how that went in the comments or in our discord or wherever you can get to us but for now I want to thank you our patrons this week for selecting the topic I was actually tied on Twitter so our patrons selected this topic for this week and thank you to our friends over at UCLA for our news story this week if you want to follow along we do post the links to the original article's on our weekly round ups on our blog you can also join us like I said on our slack or discord for more discussion on the stories we're gonna take a quick break and then we'll be back to see what's going on in the human factors community right after this human factors cast brings you the best in human factors news interviews conference coverage and overall fun conversations into each and every episode we produce but we can't do it without you. 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We got this the part of your research all over the internet the bring you topics that the community is talking about they are raising their voices and and either complaining or asking or any of the above we answer some of these in the pre show anyway if you find these answers yes will give us a like to help other people find this content wherever you're at. We have 3 tonight so let's go ahead and get into the first one here this is by lion turtle land on the user experience sub reddit it's a fairly fairly easy one to start us off with the night berry how would you describe your overall happiness in this field and of course we're talking about human factors field here or U. acts or whatever you're in right do you love what you do day to day do you have a good work life balance. So do I do what I do today the day today yes I absolutely do I am very lucky that I can basically my own business I couldn't focus that business and exactly what I want I can do the task that I enjoy doing and I can delegate stuff I don't like doing. That's brilliant do I have a good work life balance absolutely not I am absolutely rubbish at this I'm very good at telling everybody else to make sure to take holidays I don't want to. They take the appropriate time all 3 of the people against our style I'm very good at telling other people that they need to be able to jail and all that sort of stuff I'm really rubbish at doing it for myself so yeah intro yes I love what I do know ever I don't have a good work life balance. What about you well hang on and there's a third question there are you happy my help you yes absolutely and I think that's where the where the privileges isn't it's the. One of things I think we are very lucky in working in this field is we have an option to get involved in any project that really because every project every product involves people and we can normally do this it's very rare we cannot make a difference a positive difference to a project or a product or or service so it's always good to be have to go in and be able to see tangible change because you've gone in and you've done something so yeah I think I think I'm generally very happy with what I'm doing. Yeah for me in the past I've I've worked with personalities that have been difficult to. Sort of work with kind of expecting the impossible and had really poor planning and so in that instance where you are working with individuals that maybe don't play to strengths of employees I think that can be a situation where you can be unhappy this is a field where I think you can be happy with what you're doing. Provided you do have that good work life balance and you do love what you do every day right now I am fortunate enough to be in that position I do have a great work life balance I think. You know my employer gives us. You know every third Friday off so that way it's a wellness day and the they kind of make sure that we're taking care of. Really good insurance you know that kind of thing so like the the personal life is is great and I can it's flexible I can step away from the computer as long as they don't have a meeting and get back to it later. And so I can kind of spend some time with my son during the day which is invaluable I love that I love being able to spend time with my son and then I can get back to work at night when everyone else is you know sleep and I can sit there and and knock away some of these things as long as I don't have meetings during the day I can do that right. In terms of loving what I do I do love what I do I think I nerd out about data every day and I I I nerd out about talking to people about what they do on a day to day basis I love learning about the domains that I work in and I love you have to have the sort of continuous love of learning and sort of a a continuous. Evaluation of what you know because it always changes and the field changes and you have to be with those changes the overall super happy but I have been in the situation where you can be unhappy and that's not great so just know that happiness is out there and if you are unhappy in your role maybe. Explore other options that's what I'd say. Okay let's get into this next one here how to organize and share interview data this is by. Aaron ma'am too on the H. C. I sat right it would be the best way our best tool to analyze and share quantitative survey data I have data from 40 people and questions and answers from 3 different surveys. They were each given I want to sometimes you the data of all 3 surveys for one particular person and then view how all 40 people are answered a certain way so they're asking for very specific answer but I I'm gonna broaden this and see how do you organize your data generally do you have one spreadsheet you have many spread sheets do you have like how do you what's your process berry. Well I'm I'm I'm gonna coin the phrase of well it depends does not immigrants given things online I think excel is so sharing data is is my go to tool I know that there is very you know the much more sophisticated tools out there but when you can play with a with a data generally yeah one call sheet well we'll say one koshi with audio main data on it and then use the sheets to then slice and dice slice and dice the data and so to be able to then have different features with your different chancel so trying close to them close to the similar chops together well have you filled the filters on the charts so then you can. You can really look at that and and and play with it. The mall prep you can do in the background and the more you can structure the the questions so you can analyze them easier later on the more effort you put it up front the better the outcome is so I'm not by from this questions specifically that they've already done the 90 days question that but I did the more prep you can put in before we'll just just give you must vote comes on the you know the the beauty of a goal of a good pivot table and a good have a child it will work no and does wonders with that because it you you just allows you to go to so much that I think what are you what what you what you're going to let you go to a tool of choice when you're doing the same thing at like you mentioned it depends I'm doubling down on March tonight so I have my it depends shirt under my human factors cast sweater. S. bring that up okay so in terms of how I work so I think there's some interesting questions about this and there's some I guess keramat or is that you need to understand before you consider what constitutes. I guess an individual excel file right I am also an excel person although I have used Google sheets and I I kind of. M. slowly switching to Google sheets just because I have access to it everywhere it's a little bit easier to navigate Mobily. Anyway that the tool is irrelevant what is relevant is how you organize your data and so for me I like to think about. I'm. Sort of a file if you will. The per task threat. So let's say I want overall metrics of all the things I've ever worked on. Well I might capture certain data about that like where it was who we talk to how many users we had we. Is that where it was you know so so you know some of these overall data points and then. I think that might be one task that I'm not capturing all the data for you know from every single thing and putting it into one sheet that's overkill. But a let's say you know I'm talking to users from a. Specific. I guess group that might be too resolute I think what I would do is. Kind of combine. Like let's say let's say I'm doing a research thread of like figuring out what the best user interface for something would be. Pretty broad. My design but multiple user groups interact with this interface I'm gonna I'm gonna put it all in one spreadsheet. And I think you know just being able to sort and filter by the user group is going to be enough to get me the data that I want and compare across those user groups as well it's gonna be it's gonna be all really relevant as long as the tasks. Can a match what you're looking at for that research thread. Once you go beyond that research thread I would open up a new file and do things there. I don't know it's it's hard to this is a good question because it's hard to quantify from from a research perspective what constitutes a new spreadsheet it is I'm quite a final vote just full data no data protection book full make sure I don't lose the data's I don't need that protection terms of like GDPR not sort of stuff I mean just I don't know lose the call stuff I tend to pull all of my coal data that I received into 1 sheet 12 into 1 file so multiple sheets within the same exact while role day to all of it in there then save that make a copy and then start to the notices on the copy yes not only do I might stop you know stripping out I might have I might then sold the data into threads in my being made might be single interface or might be single scenario it might be whatever it is strip out the data that way what I will always have a. Mmhm what aid generally cold my my safety belt. It's all gone wrong I've got a couple copies of the actual data I can start from scratch again because invariably you'll end up putting some sort of relief from key. For me to read that you end up pressing the wrong button there on time and and doing it so ask your doctor up a box of rotator out because a. Yeah you know I've seen I mean thankfully it's only happened to me thank in 20 years it's happened twice. Only one of them is truly my fold as unified some before the home. But it it it happens and there's nothing worse than just going if only if only I just did not so it yet though don't mess with the raw data using your data sucks yeah Bodley. All right let's let's get into this last one here this one is by Delerium wrist ello on the user experience sub reddit how did you prepare to make a jump from a junior role to a mid level role. They gonna right recently I got a job offer I will be taking it has all the good stuff seemingly good environment repeatable household name brands substantial jump in salary work with content I'm familiar with it's a bit more of a mid level role though and despite having a good body of work behind me working with some very technical staff I'm slightly nervous about the jump from kind of sort of being mid level to officially being mid level I was wondering how people plan for or experienced a step up in seniority with human factors are you X. and what suggestions or advice they give for it Barry what was your jump from junior to mid like. It was interesting I think V. I. I was quite lucky that at the time I you know I worked with a really good with people we one of the largest largest you affected departments in the U. K. at the time and I was fairly it was my first. Official role as it is you have a what is the fastest I worked at I to fix we got into the human factors the main about point and so I sort of I I lost quite a lot of my career and it was it was interesting because the. Everybody felt like they expected me to jump around the time the before that I actually did so I would also like yeah it's about time the timing of the job it was sort of expected but I so internally I and what we spoke about this in the past I do suffer from imposter syndrome a loss and you you do said that god you know that the was the worry that sort of well she should be doing is how my going to look at because sometimes a major role doesn't necessarily mean you gonna be managing it just means the most more responsibility with a project when you know you might be sightings to full volume you might be leading some bass but you might not actually have stuff managerial sorry some people automatically equate it with you know you gotta have a team and stuff like that stuff that's sort of the case you will have more responsibility and generally it's because you've got the experience to do it people don't do it you're going to be above the busy people don't promote you just for fun a multi shouldn't anyway because that's cruel joke you know generally given that post because you showed the competence to be able to do it so the reason that there was no one there just have just having the confidence may be able to go and do it. Some sometime you could wake up in the morning just give yourself that talk talking to the mayor that's a you will have a greater chance at first and you can go and do it what do you think when you read that so jump what what what was it like for you you can do it I think okay so there's there's 2 I guess pathways that I can see that someone might be able to get to that mid level from a junior level it right you have sort of. Promotion or or soft promotion within a company that you've been working at. Can moving up the ladder and then you also have sort of the. Jump from one company to another but you're jumping up a level. And I think one is inherently more difficult than the other I think the jump from company to company is going to be the more difficult option so what about the easy option first and this was my experience so it very much happens naturally. In a in a company where you are sort of putting forth your work and what happens is they see your work and they say okay now I want you to tackle this aspect of a project in that that is really sort of the mid level role I think you sort of enumerated it quite. I'm quite splendidly there's sort of you're not managing people you're managing a part of a project and whether that's like a task apart. I'm sort of an investigation into a piece of a project you're still responsible for that when you're taking on those responsibilities you're no longer a worker bee. You are now sort of taking that ownership of that thing and there are consequences when you don't take ownership of that thing that to me is mid level and that's easier to do when you're in a company and you have people that understand your skill set and can evaluate what you are sort of capable of tackling for that mid level. Now let's let's look at the other direction right this is jumping from a. One company to another but in that jump you are moving from junior to mid and this is a little tougher but I think it's still doable right I think there's. Okay again I think Barry what you said is perfect you know they're not going to hire you unless they think that you know you're capable of doing the job and so as long as you've been honest in the interview process and you think it's a good match I think you know there shouldn't be any issues. Really you're gonna be either taking on parts and pieces of the project you're no longer just a worker bee now you're sort of a manager of he says and then. You know once you start getting to manage people that's where it gets a little difficult because that's even more senior level is when you're managing people and process season taking ownership of the entire project it's it's that's a different jump a maybe a story for another day but it any other closing thoughts on that one very. Nothing is fundamentally it's it's possibly the most exciting job you can make because again you you know you're not gonna you know getting them personnel management which I think is a whole different tool set it's a whole different capability set but you'll get you'll getting to actually have real responsibility full blissful beats and you can see the return on that you either deliver it you deliver it well or you don't and and that's quite an exciting time if we don't appreciate it at the time as much as you do weight when you only look back at it. But it is 30 make the most of it it's it's it's a it's a fun job today. I am all right well let's get into this last part of the show this needs no introduction it's one more thing. What's your one more thing this week well it was interesting thing for me this week so when we saw throughout the year we have to do is all of those professionals have to do a continuing professional development so you the cold all the activities you did in the your learning you've done and through the C. I. A. chance we get I was assessed and you get yet yet yup the M. the profile you thank you that the amount of learning you've done and you've reflected on it at all it's also pretty. And even though I'm an assessor so I assess other people's CPD as well I still get that nervous moments so we we have to switch all by new year's eve submitted then and you go January gets assessed you still have that nervous moment to what happens if I haven't done enough for them just do you have is reviewing my stuff is still just doesn't stack up anyway I got my emails and thankfully I've for another year I've passed I've pulled the wool over there right no I did sufficient amount since he needs to make that work it took me to a question actually because I know when you get we go with the CHF it's a child's body so we. Also the economists and we were very good still behind the it's it's it's prudent but actually do you think charge it means much outside of the UK because HFS seasons Charli CDW to become a charter member rates if yes does anybody care I don't I've never heard of it and honestly if I saw it on a resume I don't know what. That's what I was thinking as well it's an interest wise it's it's an interesting discussion to have because it's the charge with a fairly recent thing with this it within the schedule so much out to others I know much out in your name which is also even more S. M. we don't need all the exciting news I'm going back to my get into form of approach to Marty yes my. Children remember stuff this week. It was my daughter. The picture on linkedin. Most of it just to I've just worked out how to rather be treating you stuff. You grow the. You raise them. Teach them from birth to be a lot of actors all the teams that teaching her human factor strategies and skills since basically she was in the in the in the crib but now it's come true all the investment has come to fruition so there is is a really interesting time so she's a. He started with us 2 days we can between now and the starting university and so when she's doing 3 different areas of the business so she can pick someone up it's just a really proud moment on the bike I can't wait if I I've I've been written into a first bit and so she she's more of a **** background and we just put a proposal for a nasty piece of work so yeah and if we get it then they'll be quite interesting that's awesome. What do you think what's your a woman things going well last week bury you and I had a wonderful discussion on the matter verse and what that all meant and you know one thing on my list it's been on my list for a while we talk about the oculus quest to right and. Well it was my birthday this week and I I went ahead and I I got wind. Yeah I know it's a little. So so I'm actually really excited about it you know there's now what I have in my hands I have a different assessment of the device then I did even a week ago so I I've been pretty positive on this device overall and still am I think it it does a lot for convenience of VR and you know the the the the I guess marker lists tracking and and wireless headset is game changing I can't understate that now there are some clear I'm sensing a bus he is so. Their oversights with the product I think. I think this is not a full review I'm not fully reviewing this but the the strap is lacking you know I feel like they're stronger straps out there on the market and there's some other things like my glasses actually don't even fit. In inside this thing very well I have pretty wide frames. And so they they have a hard time fitting so I've gone in ordered myself a couple mods for it so I have custom lenses with my customers reaction on the way for the soccer I've also ordered a vent fan for the top of this so that way as I'm getting sweaty playing beat saber it'll just not cut out Aug right out and then the third thing I got was a better head strap and this is one of those halo head straps that kind of sits on your forehead and rest on your back has a battery pack on it too so can a counterweight this thing. And it'll tighten around my head and my the back of my head and will kind of leave pressure on my thighs and so with those mods I am hoping that this machine becomes sort of my preferred. It already is my preferred VR device I'm really excited about it that's my one more thing for this week and that's gonna be it for today everyone if you liked this episode and enjoy some of the discussion about the psychology behind learning. I urge you all to go listen to episode 223 that's where we talk about how a all right can improve common wherever you're listening with what you think of a story this week for more in depth discussion tonight join us on our slack or discord communities if you want to chat about the are with me I'm happy to yeah you can always visit our official website sign up for our newsletter to stay up to date with the latest human factors news if you like what you hear you want to support the show there are 3 things you can do one leave us a 5 star review to tell your friends about us or 3 consider supporting us on Patreon we're 2 people away from being self sustainable and patria you could be toasting as always links all the socials and our website in the description of this episode I don't think Mr berry Kirby for being on the show today where can our listeners going find you if they want to talk about listening to this podcast at twice the speed. Well they can go to find me on Twitter at bottoms okay all gone hit my podcast I travel to podcast.com. As for me I've been your host Nick Rome you can find the streaming sometimes likely not for mental health reasons across social media at Nick _ Rome thanks again for tuning into human factors cast until next time. 8 of the van and.